A map is continuous if and only if for every set, the image of closure is contained in the closure of image
up vote
46
down vote
favorite
As a part of self study, I am trying to prove the following statement:
Suppose $X$ and $Y$ are topological spaces and $f: X rightarrow Y$ is a map. Then $f$ is continuous if and only if $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)}$, where $overline{A}$ denotes the closure of an arbitrary set $A$.
Assuming $f$ is continuous, the result is almost immediate. Perhaps I am missing something obvious, but I have not been able to make progress on the other direction. Could anyone give me a hint which might illuminate the problem for me?
general-topology continuity
add a comment |
up vote
46
down vote
favorite
As a part of self study, I am trying to prove the following statement:
Suppose $X$ and $Y$ are topological spaces and $f: X rightarrow Y$ is a map. Then $f$ is continuous if and only if $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)}$, where $overline{A}$ denotes the closure of an arbitrary set $A$.
Assuming $f$ is continuous, the result is almost immediate. Perhaps I am missing something obvious, but I have not been able to make progress on the other direction. Could anyone give me a hint which might illuminate the problem for me?
general-topology continuity
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
2
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56
add a comment |
up vote
46
down vote
favorite
up vote
46
down vote
favorite
As a part of self study, I am trying to prove the following statement:
Suppose $X$ and $Y$ are topological spaces and $f: X rightarrow Y$ is a map. Then $f$ is continuous if and only if $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)}$, where $overline{A}$ denotes the closure of an arbitrary set $A$.
Assuming $f$ is continuous, the result is almost immediate. Perhaps I am missing something obvious, but I have not been able to make progress on the other direction. Could anyone give me a hint which might illuminate the problem for me?
general-topology continuity
As a part of self study, I am trying to prove the following statement:
Suppose $X$ and $Y$ are topological spaces and $f: X rightarrow Y$ is a map. Then $f$ is continuous if and only if $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)}$, where $overline{A}$ denotes the closure of an arbitrary set $A$.
Assuming $f$ is continuous, the result is almost immediate. Perhaps I am missing something obvious, but I have not been able to make progress on the other direction. Could anyone give me a hint which might illuminate the problem for me?
general-topology continuity
general-topology continuity
edited Nov 18 '15 at 15:37
user147263
asked Feb 28 '12 at 16:18
Holdsworth88
4,98732759
4,98732759
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
2
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56
add a comment |
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
2
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
2
2
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
Because the property is stated in terms of closures, it's I think slightly easier to use the inverse image of closed is closed equivalence of continuity instead:
If $C$ is closed in $Y$, we need to show that $D = f^{-1}[C]$ is closed in $X$.
Now using our closure property for $D$: $$f[overline{D}] subseteq overline{f[D]} = overline{f[f^{-1}[C]]} subseteq overline{C} = C,$$ as $C$ is closed.
This means that $overline{D} subseteq f^{-1}[C] = D$, making $D$ closed, as required.
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
If $f$ is continuous, then $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)})$ is open; since $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)}) = X -f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, then $f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$ is closed; since $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}overline{f(A)}$, we conclude that $overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, and therefore $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq fleft(f^{-1}left(overline{f(A)}right)right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. This proves one direction. (Since you said you already had this, I posted the full argument).
Conversely, assume that for every $A$, $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. Let $V$ be an open subset of $Y$; we want to show that $f^{-1}(V)$ is open; equivalently, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)$ is closed; that is, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)=overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}$.
By assumption, $fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)subseteq overline{f(X-f^{-1}(V))}$. Now, $X-f^{-1}(V) = f^{-1}(Y-V)$, so $f(X-f^{-1}(V)) subseteq Y-V$, which is closed; so
$$fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)=fleft(overline{f^{-1}(Y-V)}right)subseteqoverline{fleft(f^{-1}(Y-V)right)}subseteq Y-V.$$ Therefore,
$$overline{X-f^{-1}(V)} subseteq f^{-1}(Y-V).$$
Is this sufficient?
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Henno’s argument is probably the slickest, but one can also work pointwise, either directly or, if one already has those characterizations of continuity, with nets or filters.
Suppose that $f$ is not continuous. Then there is some point $x_0in X$ at which $f$ fails to be continuous. If $y_0=f(x_0)$, this means that there is an open nbhd $U$ of $y_0$ such that if $V$ is an open nbhd of $x_0$, there is a point $x_Vin V$ such that $f(x_V)notin U$. Let $$A={x_V:Vtext{ is an open nbhd of }x_0};.$$
Clearly $x_0inoverline{A}$, and $f[A]subseteq Ysetminus U$. Moreover, $Ysetminus U$ is closed, so $overline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U$, and hence
$$y_0in f[overline{A}]subseteqoverline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U;,$$
contradicting the choice of $U$.
Those who like nets may notice that $A$ actually is a net, over the directed set $langlemathscr{N}(x_0),supseteqrangle$, where $mathscr{N}(x_0)$ is the family of open nbhds of $x_0$, and the argument shows that $f$ doesn’t preserve the limit of this net. (I could of course just as well have used the nbhd filter at $x_0$, instead of using only open nbhds.)
Those who prefer filters may modify this to consider the filter $$mathscr{F}={Vcap f^{-1}[Ysetminus U]:Vinmathscr{N}(x_0)}$$ instead.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
We show that $f$ is continuous at each $xin X$. Recall that $f$ is continuous at $x$ if for any open nhood $V$ of $f(x)$, there is an open nhood $U$ of $x$ with $f(U)subseteq V$.
So, let $xin X$ and let $V$ be an open nhood of $f(x)$.
Set $E=Xsetminus f^{-1}(V)$. Noting that $f(E)$ is contained in the closed set $V^C$,
we see that
$$f(overline{E})subseteq overline{f(E)}subseteq V^C; $$
whence $xnotin overline E$ (since $f(x)$ is in $V$).
But then $x$ is in the open set $Xsetminus overline{E}$. Moreover, since $Xsetminus overline{E}subseteq Xsetminus E=f^{-1}(V)$, it follows that $f(Xsetminus overline{E})subseteq V$, as desired.
An aside:
If $X$ were first countable, we could argue using sequences (where a sequence $(x_n)$ converges to $x$ if for any nhood $U$ of $x$ there is an $N$ so that $x_min U$ for all $mge N$); for in such a space a function is continuous at $x$ if and only if $(f (x_n))$ converges to $f(x)$ whenever $x_n$ converges to $x$.
Indeed, it is easily verified that given $x_nrightarrow x$ and any subsequence $(x_{n_k})$ of $(x_n)$, that the image of this subsequence under $f$ when thought of as a sequence has a subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. Thus every subsequence of $(f(x_n))$ has a further subsequence which converges to $f(x)$, which implies that $(f(x_n))$ converges to $x$.
Of course, $X$ need not be first countable...
Though I think the sequential method above is a bit much here, I wonder if the argument can be suitably modified to arbitrary $X$ by using nets?
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Here's one proof of the converse provided $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces:
Take a limit point $x$ of $A$. Then because $f(overline{A}) subseteq overline{f(A)}$, we have that $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$.
Because $x$ is a limit point of $A$, for every $delta > 0$ there is a point $p in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$. And because $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$, for every $epsilon > 0$, there is a point $q in f(A)$ with $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$.
We thus have that for every point $x in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$, in fact $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$, so $f$ must be continuous.
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
A proof using nets:
Suppose $yin f(overline{A})backslash overline{fA}$. Taking $xin overline{A}$ with $y=f(x)$; there is a net $x_iin A$ converging to $x$. Now $f(x_i)$ is a net in $f(A)$ which does not converge to $f(x)$ [for this would imply $f(x)in overline{fA}$]. Thus $f$ is not continuous.
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
So, the assertion follows from:
$overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) Rightarrow overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}$
- Inclusion: $f(A)subseteqoverline{f(A)} Rightarrow f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteq overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}$
- Equality: $overline{f(A)} text{ closed} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) text{ closed} Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
The converse assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{B}=B Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(B)}=f^{-1}(B)$
So, the converse assertion follows from:
$f^{-1}(B)subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(B)}subseteq f^{-1}(f(overline{f^{-1}(B)}))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}) subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B}) =f^{-1}(B)$
That gives:
$f^{-1}(B)=overline{f^{-1}(B)}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq overline{A} text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)} text{ by assumption}$
- Inclusion: $f(f^{-1}(B))subseteq B text{ in general} Rightarrow overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}subseteq overline{B} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))})subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B})$
- Equality: $overline{B}=B Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{B})=f^{-1}(B)$
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
Because the property is stated in terms of closures, it's I think slightly easier to use the inverse image of closed is closed equivalence of continuity instead:
If $C$ is closed in $Y$, we need to show that $D = f^{-1}[C]$ is closed in $X$.
Now using our closure property for $D$: $$f[overline{D}] subseteq overline{f[D]} = overline{f[f^{-1}[C]]} subseteq overline{C} = C,$$ as $C$ is closed.
This means that $overline{D} subseteq f^{-1}[C] = D$, making $D$ closed, as required.
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
Because the property is stated in terms of closures, it's I think slightly easier to use the inverse image of closed is closed equivalence of continuity instead:
If $C$ is closed in $Y$, we need to show that $D = f^{-1}[C]$ is closed in $X$.
Now using our closure property for $D$: $$f[overline{D}] subseteq overline{f[D]} = overline{f[f^{-1}[C]]} subseteq overline{C} = C,$$ as $C$ is closed.
This means that $overline{D} subseteq f^{-1}[C] = D$, making $D$ closed, as required.
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
Because the property is stated in terms of closures, it's I think slightly easier to use the inverse image of closed is closed equivalence of continuity instead:
If $C$ is closed in $Y$, we need to show that $D = f^{-1}[C]$ is closed in $X$.
Now using our closure property for $D$: $$f[overline{D}] subseteq overline{f[D]} = overline{f[f^{-1}[C]]} subseteq overline{C} = C,$$ as $C$ is closed.
This means that $overline{D} subseteq f^{-1}[C] = D$, making $D$ closed, as required.
Because the property is stated in terms of closures, it's I think slightly easier to use the inverse image of closed is closed equivalence of continuity instead:
If $C$ is closed in $Y$, we need to show that $D = f^{-1}[C]$ is closed in $X$.
Now using our closure property for $D$: $$f[overline{D}] subseteq overline{f[D]} = overline{f[f^{-1}[C]]} subseteq overline{C} = C,$$ as $C$ is closed.
This means that $overline{D} subseteq f^{-1}[C] = D$, making $D$ closed, as required.
edited Nov 17 at 9:15
answered Feb 28 '12 at 20:55
Henno Brandsma
102k344108
102k344108
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
|
show 5 more comments
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
I agree, no need to mess with complements.
– wildildildlife
Feb 28 '12 at 22:06
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
$C$ should be closed in $Y$, not $X$.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 29 '12 at 10:16
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
There's a misleading in the argumentation:<br> What you're showing is that in fact the preimage of closed sets is closed for continuous functions. That is a simple consequence as: $f^{-1}(C)=f^{-1}(C)^{c c}=f^{-1}(C^c)^c text{closed}$. However, the assertion is much more subtle!<br> Moreover there's a missing step in your derivation, which is precisely the desired assertion: $f(overline{D})subseteq overline{f(D)}text{???}$
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 16:57
1
1
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
@Freeze_S, it seems to me that you have misread the question. The OP was looking for the direction that Henno has proved here.
– Carsten S
Jan 22 '14 at 18:09
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
why the result is imeadiat if $f$ is continuous?
– Guerlando OCs
May 9 '16 at 0:18
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
If $f$ is continuous, then $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)})$ is open; since $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)}) = X -f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, then $f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$ is closed; since $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}overline{f(A)}$, we conclude that $overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, and therefore $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq fleft(f^{-1}left(overline{f(A)}right)right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. This proves one direction. (Since you said you already had this, I posted the full argument).
Conversely, assume that for every $A$, $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. Let $V$ be an open subset of $Y$; we want to show that $f^{-1}(V)$ is open; equivalently, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)$ is closed; that is, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)=overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}$.
By assumption, $fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)subseteq overline{f(X-f^{-1}(V))}$. Now, $X-f^{-1}(V) = f^{-1}(Y-V)$, so $f(X-f^{-1}(V)) subseteq Y-V$, which is closed; so
$$fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)=fleft(overline{f^{-1}(Y-V)}right)subseteqoverline{fleft(f^{-1}(Y-V)right)}subseteq Y-V.$$ Therefore,
$$overline{X-f^{-1}(V)} subseteq f^{-1}(Y-V).$$
Is this sufficient?
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
add a comment |
up vote
17
down vote
If $f$ is continuous, then $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)})$ is open; since $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)}) = X -f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, then $f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$ is closed; since $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}overline{f(A)}$, we conclude that $overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, and therefore $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq fleft(f^{-1}left(overline{f(A)}right)right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. This proves one direction. (Since you said you already had this, I posted the full argument).
Conversely, assume that for every $A$, $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. Let $V$ be an open subset of $Y$; we want to show that $f^{-1}(V)$ is open; equivalently, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)$ is closed; that is, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)=overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}$.
By assumption, $fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)subseteq overline{f(X-f^{-1}(V))}$. Now, $X-f^{-1}(V) = f^{-1}(Y-V)$, so $f(X-f^{-1}(V)) subseteq Y-V$, which is closed; so
$$fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)=fleft(overline{f^{-1}(Y-V)}right)subseteqoverline{fleft(f^{-1}(Y-V)right)}subseteq Y-V.$$ Therefore,
$$overline{X-f^{-1}(V)} subseteq f^{-1}(Y-V).$$
Is this sufficient?
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
add a comment |
up vote
17
down vote
up vote
17
down vote
If $f$ is continuous, then $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)})$ is open; since $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)}) = X -f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, then $f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$ is closed; since $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}overline{f(A)}$, we conclude that $overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, and therefore $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq fleft(f^{-1}left(overline{f(A)}right)right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. This proves one direction. (Since you said you already had this, I posted the full argument).
Conversely, assume that for every $A$, $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. Let $V$ be an open subset of $Y$; we want to show that $f^{-1}(V)$ is open; equivalently, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)$ is closed; that is, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)=overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}$.
By assumption, $fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)subseteq overline{f(X-f^{-1}(V))}$. Now, $X-f^{-1}(V) = f^{-1}(Y-V)$, so $f(X-f^{-1}(V)) subseteq Y-V$, which is closed; so
$$fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)=fleft(overline{f^{-1}(Y-V)}right)subseteqoverline{fleft(f^{-1}(Y-V)right)}subseteq Y-V.$$ Therefore,
$$overline{X-f^{-1}(V)} subseteq f^{-1}(Y-V).$$
Is this sufficient?
If $f$ is continuous, then $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)})$ is open; since $f^{-1}(Y-overline{f(A)}) = X -f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, then $f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$ is closed; since $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}overline{f(A)}$, we conclude that $overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$, and therefore $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq fleft(f^{-1}left(overline{f(A)}right)right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. This proves one direction. (Since you said you already had this, I posted the full argument).
Conversely, assume that for every $A$, $fleft(overline{A}right)subseteq overline{f(A)}$. Let $V$ be an open subset of $Y$; we want to show that $f^{-1}(V)$ is open; equivalently, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)$ is closed; that is, we want to show that $X-f^{-1}(V)=overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}$.
By assumption, $fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)subseteq overline{f(X-f^{-1}(V))}$. Now, $X-f^{-1}(V) = f^{-1}(Y-V)$, so $f(X-f^{-1}(V)) subseteq Y-V$, which is closed; so
$$fleft(overline{X-f^{-1}(V)}right)=fleft(overline{f^{-1}(Y-V)}right)subseteqoverline{fleft(f^{-1}(Y-V)right)}subseteq Y-V.$$ Therefore,
$$overline{X-f^{-1}(V)} subseteq f^{-1}(Y-V).$$
Is this sufficient?
edited Feb 28 '12 at 17:01
answered Feb 28 '12 at 16:26
Arturo Magidin
259k32581902
259k32581902
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
add a comment |
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
2
2
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
That was more than sufficient, thank you.
– Holdsworth88
Feb 28 '12 at 16:51
1
1
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
Converse part is nice.
– math is love
Jan 26 '17 at 15:15
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Henno’s argument is probably the slickest, but one can also work pointwise, either directly or, if one already has those characterizations of continuity, with nets or filters.
Suppose that $f$ is not continuous. Then there is some point $x_0in X$ at which $f$ fails to be continuous. If $y_0=f(x_0)$, this means that there is an open nbhd $U$ of $y_0$ such that if $V$ is an open nbhd of $x_0$, there is a point $x_Vin V$ such that $f(x_V)notin U$. Let $$A={x_V:Vtext{ is an open nbhd of }x_0};.$$
Clearly $x_0inoverline{A}$, and $f[A]subseteq Ysetminus U$. Moreover, $Ysetminus U$ is closed, so $overline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U$, and hence
$$y_0in f[overline{A}]subseteqoverline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U;,$$
contradicting the choice of $U$.
Those who like nets may notice that $A$ actually is a net, over the directed set $langlemathscr{N}(x_0),supseteqrangle$, where $mathscr{N}(x_0)$ is the family of open nbhds of $x_0$, and the argument shows that $f$ doesn’t preserve the limit of this net. (I could of course just as well have used the nbhd filter at $x_0$, instead of using only open nbhds.)
Those who prefer filters may modify this to consider the filter $$mathscr{F}={Vcap f^{-1}[Ysetminus U]:Vinmathscr{N}(x_0)}$$ instead.
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Henno’s argument is probably the slickest, but one can also work pointwise, either directly or, if one already has those characterizations of continuity, with nets or filters.
Suppose that $f$ is not continuous. Then there is some point $x_0in X$ at which $f$ fails to be continuous. If $y_0=f(x_0)$, this means that there is an open nbhd $U$ of $y_0$ such that if $V$ is an open nbhd of $x_0$, there is a point $x_Vin V$ such that $f(x_V)notin U$. Let $$A={x_V:Vtext{ is an open nbhd of }x_0};.$$
Clearly $x_0inoverline{A}$, and $f[A]subseteq Ysetminus U$. Moreover, $Ysetminus U$ is closed, so $overline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U$, and hence
$$y_0in f[overline{A}]subseteqoverline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U;,$$
contradicting the choice of $U$.
Those who like nets may notice that $A$ actually is a net, over the directed set $langlemathscr{N}(x_0),supseteqrangle$, where $mathscr{N}(x_0)$ is the family of open nbhds of $x_0$, and the argument shows that $f$ doesn’t preserve the limit of this net. (I could of course just as well have used the nbhd filter at $x_0$, instead of using only open nbhds.)
Those who prefer filters may modify this to consider the filter $$mathscr{F}={Vcap f^{-1}[Ysetminus U]:Vinmathscr{N}(x_0)}$$ instead.
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
Henno’s argument is probably the slickest, but one can also work pointwise, either directly or, if one already has those characterizations of continuity, with nets or filters.
Suppose that $f$ is not continuous. Then there is some point $x_0in X$ at which $f$ fails to be continuous. If $y_0=f(x_0)$, this means that there is an open nbhd $U$ of $y_0$ such that if $V$ is an open nbhd of $x_0$, there is a point $x_Vin V$ such that $f(x_V)notin U$. Let $$A={x_V:Vtext{ is an open nbhd of }x_0};.$$
Clearly $x_0inoverline{A}$, and $f[A]subseteq Ysetminus U$. Moreover, $Ysetminus U$ is closed, so $overline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U$, and hence
$$y_0in f[overline{A}]subseteqoverline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U;,$$
contradicting the choice of $U$.
Those who like nets may notice that $A$ actually is a net, over the directed set $langlemathscr{N}(x_0),supseteqrangle$, where $mathscr{N}(x_0)$ is the family of open nbhds of $x_0$, and the argument shows that $f$ doesn’t preserve the limit of this net. (I could of course just as well have used the nbhd filter at $x_0$, instead of using only open nbhds.)
Those who prefer filters may modify this to consider the filter $$mathscr{F}={Vcap f^{-1}[Ysetminus U]:Vinmathscr{N}(x_0)}$$ instead.
Henno’s argument is probably the slickest, but one can also work pointwise, either directly or, if one already has those characterizations of continuity, with nets or filters.
Suppose that $f$ is not continuous. Then there is some point $x_0in X$ at which $f$ fails to be continuous. If $y_0=f(x_0)$, this means that there is an open nbhd $U$ of $y_0$ such that if $V$ is an open nbhd of $x_0$, there is a point $x_Vin V$ such that $f(x_V)notin U$. Let $$A={x_V:Vtext{ is an open nbhd of }x_0};.$$
Clearly $x_0inoverline{A}$, and $f[A]subseteq Ysetminus U$. Moreover, $Ysetminus U$ is closed, so $overline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U$, and hence
$$y_0in f[overline{A}]subseteqoverline{f[A]}subseteq Ysetminus U;,$$
contradicting the choice of $U$.
Those who like nets may notice that $A$ actually is a net, over the directed set $langlemathscr{N}(x_0),supseteqrangle$, where $mathscr{N}(x_0)$ is the family of open nbhds of $x_0$, and the argument shows that $f$ doesn’t preserve the limit of this net. (I could of course just as well have used the nbhd filter at $x_0$, instead of using only open nbhds.)
Those who prefer filters may modify this to consider the filter $$mathscr{F}={Vcap f^{-1}[Ysetminus U]:Vinmathscr{N}(x_0)}$$ instead.
answered Feb 29 '12 at 6:26
Brian M. Scott
453k38504904
453k38504904
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
We show that $f$ is continuous at each $xin X$. Recall that $f$ is continuous at $x$ if for any open nhood $V$ of $f(x)$, there is an open nhood $U$ of $x$ with $f(U)subseteq V$.
So, let $xin X$ and let $V$ be an open nhood of $f(x)$.
Set $E=Xsetminus f^{-1}(V)$. Noting that $f(E)$ is contained in the closed set $V^C$,
we see that
$$f(overline{E})subseteq overline{f(E)}subseteq V^C; $$
whence $xnotin overline E$ (since $f(x)$ is in $V$).
But then $x$ is in the open set $Xsetminus overline{E}$. Moreover, since $Xsetminus overline{E}subseteq Xsetminus E=f^{-1}(V)$, it follows that $f(Xsetminus overline{E})subseteq V$, as desired.
An aside:
If $X$ were first countable, we could argue using sequences (where a sequence $(x_n)$ converges to $x$ if for any nhood $U$ of $x$ there is an $N$ so that $x_min U$ for all $mge N$); for in such a space a function is continuous at $x$ if and only if $(f (x_n))$ converges to $f(x)$ whenever $x_n$ converges to $x$.
Indeed, it is easily verified that given $x_nrightarrow x$ and any subsequence $(x_{n_k})$ of $(x_n)$, that the image of this subsequence under $f$ when thought of as a sequence has a subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. Thus every subsequence of $(f(x_n))$ has a further subsequence which converges to $f(x)$, which implies that $(f(x_n))$ converges to $x$.
Of course, $X$ need not be first countable...
Though I think the sequential method above is a bit much here, I wonder if the argument can be suitably modified to arbitrary $X$ by using nets?
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
We show that $f$ is continuous at each $xin X$. Recall that $f$ is continuous at $x$ if for any open nhood $V$ of $f(x)$, there is an open nhood $U$ of $x$ with $f(U)subseteq V$.
So, let $xin X$ and let $V$ be an open nhood of $f(x)$.
Set $E=Xsetminus f^{-1}(V)$. Noting that $f(E)$ is contained in the closed set $V^C$,
we see that
$$f(overline{E})subseteq overline{f(E)}subseteq V^C; $$
whence $xnotin overline E$ (since $f(x)$ is in $V$).
But then $x$ is in the open set $Xsetminus overline{E}$. Moreover, since $Xsetminus overline{E}subseteq Xsetminus E=f^{-1}(V)$, it follows that $f(Xsetminus overline{E})subseteq V$, as desired.
An aside:
If $X$ were first countable, we could argue using sequences (where a sequence $(x_n)$ converges to $x$ if for any nhood $U$ of $x$ there is an $N$ so that $x_min U$ for all $mge N$); for in such a space a function is continuous at $x$ if and only if $(f (x_n))$ converges to $f(x)$ whenever $x_n$ converges to $x$.
Indeed, it is easily verified that given $x_nrightarrow x$ and any subsequence $(x_{n_k})$ of $(x_n)$, that the image of this subsequence under $f$ when thought of as a sequence has a subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. Thus every subsequence of $(f(x_n))$ has a further subsequence which converges to $f(x)$, which implies that $(f(x_n))$ converges to $x$.
Of course, $X$ need not be first countable...
Though I think the sequential method above is a bit much here, I wonder if the argument can be suitably modified to arbitrary $X$ by using nets?
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
We show that $f$ is continuous at each $xin X$. Recall that $f$ is continuous at $x$ if for any open nhood $V$ of $f(x)$, there is an open nhood $U$ of $x$ with $f(U)subseteq V$.
So, let $xin X$ and let $V$ be an open nhood of $f(x)$.
Set $E=Xsetminus f^{-1}(V)$. Noting that $f(E)$ is contained in the closed set $V^C$,
we see that
$$f(overline{E})subseteq overline{f(E)}subseteq V^C; $$
whence $xnotin overline E$ (since $f(x)$ is in $V$).
But then $x$ is in the open set $Xsetminus overline{E}$. Moreover, since $Xsetminus overline{E}subseteq Xsetminus E=f^{-1}(V)$, it follows that $f(Xsetminus overline{E})subseteq V$, as desired.
An aside:
If $X$ were first countable, we could argue using sequences (where a sequence $(x_n)$ converges to $x$ if for any nhood $U$ of $x$ there is an $N$ so that $x_min U$ for all $mge N$); for in such a space a function is continuous at $x$ if and only if $(f (x_n))$ converges to $f(x)$ whenever $x_n$ converges to $x$.
Indeed, it is easily verified that given $x_nrightarrow x$ and any subsequence $(x_{n_k})$ of $(x_n)$, that the image of this subsequence under $f$ when thought of as a sequence has a subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. Thus every subsequence of $(f(x_n))$ has a further subsequence which converges to $f(x)$, which implies that $(f(x_n))$ converges to $x$.
Of course, $X$ need not be first countable...
Though I think the sequential method above is a bit much here, I wonder if the argument can be suitably modified to arbitrary $X$ by using nets?
We show that $f$ is continuous at each $xin X$. Recall that $f$ is continuous at $x$ if for any open nhood $V$ of $f(x)$, there is an open nhood $U$ of $x$ with $f(U)subseteq V$.
So, let $xin X$ and let $V$ be an open nhood of $f(x)$.
Set $E=Xsetminus f^{-1}(V)$. Noting that $f(E)$ is contained in the closed set $V^C$,
we see that
$$f(overline{E})subseteq overline{f(E)}subseteq V^C; $$
whence $xnotin overline E$ (since $f(x)$ is in $V$).
But then $x$ is in the open set $Xsetminus overline{E}$. Moreover, since $Xsetminus overline{E}subseteq Xsetminus E=f^{-1}(V)$, it follows that $f(Xsetminus overline{E})subseteq V$, as desired.
An aside:
If $X$ were first countable, we could argue using sequences (where a sequence $(x_n)$ converges to $x$ if for any nhood $U$ of $x$ there is an $N$ so that $x_min U$ for all $mge N$); for in such a space a function is continuous at $x$ if and only if $(f (x_n))$ converges to $f(x)$ whenever $x_n$ converges to $x$.
Indeed, it is easily verified that given $x_nrightarrow x$ and any subsequence $(x_{n_k})$ of $(x_n)$, that the image of this subsequence under $f$ when thought of as a sequence has a subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. Thus every subsequence of $(f(x_n))$ has a further subsequence which converges to $f(x)$, which implies that $(f(x_n))$ converges to $x$.
Of course, $X$ need not be first countable...
Though I think the sequential method above is a bit much here, I wonder if the argument can be suitably modified to arbitrary $X$ by using nets?
answered Feb 28 '12 at 18:10
David Mitra
62.6k697160
62.6k697160
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Here's one proof of the converse provided $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces:
Take a limit point $x$ of $A$. Then because $f(overline{A}) subseteq overline{f(A)}$, we have that $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$.
Because $x$ is a limit point of $A$, for every $delta > 0$ there is a point $p in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$. And because $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$, for every $epsilon > 0$, there is a point $q in f(A)$ with $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$.
We thus have that for every point $x in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$, in fact $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$, so $f$ must be continuous.
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
Here's one proof of the converse provided $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces:
Take a limit point $x$ of $A$. Then because $f(overline{A}) subseteq overline{f(A)}$, we have that $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$.
Because $x$ is a limit point of $A$, for every $delta > 0$ there is a point $p in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$. And because $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$, for every $epsilon > 0$, there is a point $q in f(A)$ with $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$.
We thus have that for every point $x in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$, in fact $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$, so $f$ must be continuous.
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Here's one proof of the converse provided $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces:
Take a limit point $x$ of $A$. Then because $f(overline{A}) subseteq overline{f(A)}$, we have that $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$.
Because $x$ is a limit point of $A$, for every $delta > 0$ there is a point $p in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$. And because $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$, for every $epsilon > 0$, there is a point $q in f(A)$ with $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$.
We thus have that for every point $x in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$, in fact $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$, so $f$ must be continuous.
Here's one proof of the converse provided $X$ and $Y$ are metric spaces:
Take a limit point $x$ of $A$. Then because $f(overline{A}) subseteq overline{f(A)}$, we have that $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$.
Because $x$ is a limit point of $A$, for every $delta > 0$ there is a point $p in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$. And because $f(x)$ is a limit point of $f(A)$, for every $epsilon > 0$, there is a point $q in f(A)$ with $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$.
We thus have that for every point $x in A$ with $|x - p| < delta$, in fact $|f(x) - f(p)| < epsilon$, so $f$ must be continuous.
edited Feb 28 '12 at 17:11
Austin Mohr
19.9k35097
19.9k35097
answered Feb 28 '12 at 16:33
jamaicanworm
1,41062237
1,41062237
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
|
show 1 more comment
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
4
4
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
I guess this is a decent enough answer for the case of the real numbers, but the question was about arbitrary topological spaces $X$ and $Y$.
– kahen
Feb 28 '12 at 16:45
3
3
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
We are not in a world where things like $|x-p|$ could make sense. Any "TOPOLOGICAL SPACE" is in question, but any way a good proof that will be useful. I am upvoting and don't delete this answer because of this as it will help close duplicates.
– user21436
Feb 28 '12 at 16:46
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
Can't you just substitute $d(x, p)$ for $|x - p|$?
– jamaicanworm
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
4
4
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
@jamaicaworm: Only in a metric space. Not every topological space is a metric space, or even metrizable.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:50
6
6
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
@jamaicanworm: The post is labeled [general-topology], not [metric-spaces]. The definition of a topological space includes the notion of "open set", and "closed set" is a set whose complement is open. See the definition in Wikipedia.
– Arturo Magidin
Feb 28 '12 at 16:59
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
A proof using nets:
Suppose $yin f(overline{A})backslash overline{fA}$. Taking $xin overline{A}$ with $y=f(x)$; there is a net $x_iin A$ converging to $x$. Now $f(x_i)$ is a net in $f(A)$ which does not converge to $f(x)$ [for this would imply $f(x)in overline{fA}$]. Thus $f$ is not continuous.
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
A proof using nets:
Suppose $yin f(overline{A})backslash overline{fA}$. Taking $xin overline{A}$ with $y=f(x)$; there is a net $x_iin A$ converging to $x$. Now $f(x_i)$ is a net in $f(A)$ which does not converge to $f(x)$ [for this would imply $f(x)in overline{fA}$]. Thus $f$ is not continuous.
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
A proof using nets:
Suppose $yin f(overline{A})backslash overline{fA}$. Taking $xin overline{A}$ with $y=f(x)$; there is a net $x_iin A$ converging to $x$. Now $f(x_i)$ is a net in $f(A)$ which does not converge to $f(x)$ [for this would imply $f(x)in overline{fA}$]. Thus $f$ is not continuous.
A proof using nets:
Suppose $yin f(overline{A})backslash overline{fA}$. Taking $xin overline{A}$ with $y=f(x)$; there is a net $x_iin A$ converging to $x$. Now $f(x_i)$ is a net in $f(A)$ which does not converge to $f(x)$ [for this would imply $f(x)in overline{fA}$]. Thus $f$ is not continuous.
answered Feb 28 '12 at 22:02
wildildildlife
4,4442121
4,4442121
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
add a comment |
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
This is the direction that the OP had already been able to show.
– Brian M. Scott
Feb 29 '12 at 6:08
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
@Brian: Yes, sorry! I realized this the day after...
– wildildildlife
Mar 2 '12 at 13:15
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
So, the assertion follows from:
$overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) Rightarrow overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}$
- Inclusion: $f(A)subseteqoverline{f(A)} Rightarrow f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteq overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}$
- Equality: $overline{f(A)} text{ closed} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) text{ closed} Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
The converse assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{B}=B Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(B)}=f^{-1}(B)$
So, the converse assertion follows from:
$f^{-1}(B)subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(B)}subseteq f^{-1}(f(overline{f^{-1}(B)}))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}) subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B}) =f^{-1}(B)$
That gives:
$f^{-1}(B)=overline{f^{-1}(B)}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq overline{A} text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)} text{ by assumption}$
- Inclusion: $f(f^{-1}(B))subseteq B text{ in general} Rightarrow overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}subseteq overline{B} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))})subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B})$
- Equality: $overline{B}=B Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{B})=f^{-1}(B)$
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
So, the assertion follows from:
$overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) Rightarrow overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}$
- Inclusion: $f(A)subseteqoverline{f(A)} Rightarrow f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteq overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}$
- Equality: $overline{f(A)} text{ closed} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) text{ closed} Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
The converse assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{B}=B Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(B)}=f^{-1}(B)$
So, the converse assertion follows from:
$f^{-1}(B)subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(B)}subseteq f^{-1}(f(overline{f^{-1}(B)}))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}) subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B}) =f^{-1}(B)$
That gives:
$f^{-1}(B)=overline{f^{-1}(B)}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq overline{A} text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)} text{ by assumption}$
- Inclusion: $f(f^{-1}(B))subseteq B text{ in general} Rightarrow overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}subseteq overline{B} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))})subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B})$
- Equality: $overline{B}=B Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{B})=f^{-1}(B)$
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
So, the assertion follows from:
$overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) Rightarrow overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}$
- Inclusion: $f(A)subseteqoverline{f(A)} Rightarrow f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteq overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}$
- Equality: $overline{f(A)} text{ closed} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) text{ closed} Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
The converse assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{B}=B Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(B)}=f^{-1}(B)$
So, the converse assertion follows from:
$f^{-1}(B)subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(B)}subseteq f^{-1}(f(overline{f^{-1}(B)}))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}) subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B}) =f^{-1}(B)$
That gives:
$f^{-1}(B)=overline{f^{-1}(B)}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq overline{A} text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)} text{ by assumption}$
- Inclusion: $f(f^{-1}(B))subseteq B text{ in general} Rightarrow overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}subseteq overline{B} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))})subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B})$
- Equality: $overline{B}=B Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{B})=f^{-1}(B)$
The assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{A}subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
So, the assertion follows from:
$overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) Rightarrow overline{A}subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(f(A))}$
- Inclusion: $f(A)subseteqoverline{f(A)} Rightarrow f^{-1}(f(A))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(f(A))}subseteq overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}$
- Equality: $overline{f(A)} text{ closed} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(A)}) text{ closed} Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})}=f^{-1}(overline{f(A)})$
The converse assertion is equivalent to:
$overline{B}=B Rightarrow overline{f^{-1}(B)}=f^{-1}(B)$
So, the converse assertion follows from:
$f^{-1}(B)subseteqoverline{f^{-1}(B)}subseteq f^{-1}(f(overline{f^{-1}(B)}))subseteq f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}) subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B}) =f^{-1}(B)$
That gives:
$f^{-1}(B)=overline{f^{-1}(B)}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq overline{A} text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $Asubseteq f^{-1}(f(A)) text{ in general}$
- Inclusion: $f(overline{A})subseteq overline{f(A)} text{ by assumption}$
- Inclusion: $f(f^{-1}(B))subseteq B text{ in general} Rightarrow overline{f(f^{-1}(B))}subseteq overline{B} Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{f(f^{-1}(B))})subseteq f^{-1}(overline{B})$
- Equality: $overline{B}=B Rightarrow f^{-1}(overline{B})=f^{-1}(B)$
edited Jan 22 '14 at 18:35
answered Jan 22 '14 at 17:38
C-Star-Puppy
7,86631961
7,86631961
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
add a comment |
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
1
1
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I don't see how this is shorter than Henno's answer, which is complete since the OP cleared out the other direction. I don't think it is good practice to claim your answer is somehow better than others, and specifically target another user's answer.
– Pedro Tamaroff♦
Jan 22 '14 at 17:51
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
I'm sorry for that ...got a little bit upset... I deleted that part so there's no bad discussion about it -sorry for that! Anyway Henno only shows that the preimage of a closed sst is closed what is a rather simple consequence. But the assertion is much more tricky than that. See my comment on Henno's answer.
– C-Star-Puppy
Jan 22 '14 at 17:57
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f114462%2fa-map-is-continuous-if-and-only-if-for-every-set-the-image-of-closure-is-contai%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
I am not able to come up with any example of a continuous function s.t. $f(overline{A}) subsetneq overline{f(A)}$. Can anyone give such an examples?
– MUH
Mar 11 at 11:03
2
Assuming $f$ is continuous, how exactly is the result "immediate"?
– Al Jebr
May 19 at 18:56