Maximum value of $x$ when equality is given
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$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
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up vote
4
down vote
favorite
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
3
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
algebra-precalculus
edited Nov 18 at 8:00
iBug
1427
1427
asked Nov 17 at 20:13
maveric
61611
61611
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
3
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
3
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
3
3
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
add a comment |
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0
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There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
answered Nov 17 at 20:25
Mark Bennet
79.9k980178
79.9k980178
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
answered Nov 17 at 20:47
Andrei
10.3k21025
10.3k21025
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
edited Nov 18 at 6:21
answered Nov 17 at 20:47
zwim
11.2k628
11.2k628
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
add a comment |
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
1
1
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
dont understant what you trying to convey?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:50
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
edited Nov 18 at 6:39
answered Nov 18 at 5:32
farruhota
18k2736
18k2736
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
add a comment |
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
– YiFan
Nov 18 at 6:25
2
2
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
– zwim
Nov 18 at 6:32
1
1
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
– farruhota
Nov 18 at 6:43
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
+1. Nice method.
– Taladris
Nov 19 at 0:45
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
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Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
answered Nov 17 at 20:24
DonAntonio
176k1491224
176k1491224
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
add a comment |
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
can we say then 1?
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:25
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:39
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
add a comment |
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0
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Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
answered Nov 18 at 6:22
YiFan
1,7441315
1,7441315
add a comment |
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0
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There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
answered Nov 19 at 2:06
Taladris
4,63731832
4,63731832
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"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:17
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
– maveric
Nov 17 at 20:18
3
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 at 20:20
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
– Rebellos
Nov 17 at 20:22
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
– Makina
Nov 17 at 20:23