Can “illa” be used to mean “there?”
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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.
Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?
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edited Nov 30 at 14:53
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asked Nov 30 at 5:57
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up vote
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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.
Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?
latin-to-english-translation
edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
1
asked Nov 30 at 5:57
Nickimite
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Nickimite is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
1
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.
Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?
latin-to-english-translation
edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
1
asked Nov 30 at 5:57
Nickimite
332
New contributor
Nickimite is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.
Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?
latin-to-english-translation
latin-to-english-translation
edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
1
asked Nov 30 at 5:57
Nickimite
332
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edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
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asked Nov 30 at 5:57
Nickimite
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edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
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edited Nov 30 at 14:53
Community♦
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edited Nov 30 at 14:53
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asked Nov 30 at 5:57
Nickimite
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asked Nov 30 at 5:57
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asked Nov 30 at 5:57
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hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
1
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22
add a comment |
hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
1
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22
hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
1
1
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.
With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.
Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;
'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".
stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"
Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:
stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
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J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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up vote
2
down vote
I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."
Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.
With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.
With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.
With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.
With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
answered Nov 30 at 9:59
cnread
8,43211124
8,43211124
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
add a comment |
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 10:31
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
@JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
– cnread
Nov 30 at 17:51
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.
Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;
'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.
Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;
'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.
Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;
'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.
Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;
'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
answered Nov 30 at 7:46
Hugh
4,6152616
4,6152616
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".
stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"
Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:
stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
New contributor
J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".
stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"
Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:
stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
New contributor
J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".
stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"
Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:
stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
New contributor
J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".
stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"
Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:
stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
New contributor
J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
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answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
1312
answered Nov 30 at 14:28
J. Foster
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1312
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add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."
Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
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Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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up vote
2
down vote
I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."
Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
New contributor
Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."
Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
New contributor
Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."
Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
New contributor
Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
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answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
answered Dec 1 at 4:15
Cassius12
513
513
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hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03
1
Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Nov 30 at 7:22