Does the Heisenberg equation for fields and canonical momentums hold as well for the hamiltonian density...











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In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










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    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










share|cite|improve this question















In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}







quantum-field-theory field-theory hamiltonian-formalism commutator poisson-brackets






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edited Nov 27 at 14:17









Qmechanic

100k121791123




100k121791123










asked Nov 27 at 12:55









Quantumwhisp

2,672623




2,672623








  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20














  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20








1




1




related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 27 at 17:20




related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 27 at 17:20










2 Answers
2






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up vote
6
down vote














  1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


  2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
    $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
    by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
    $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
    ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

    to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
    $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
    where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
    $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
    {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

    i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







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    up vote
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    You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



    For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



    $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



    The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      active

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      up vote
      6
      down vote














      1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


      2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
        $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
        by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
        $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
        ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

        to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
        $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
        where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
        $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
        {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

        i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        6
        down vote














        1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


        2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
          $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
          by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
          $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
          ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

          to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
          $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
          where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
          $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
          {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

          i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          6
          down vote










          up vote
          6
          down vote










          1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


          2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
            $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
            by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
            $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
            ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

            to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
            $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
            where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
            $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
            {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

            i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







          share|cite|improve this answer















          1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


          2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
            $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
            by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
            $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
            ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

            to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
            $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
            where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
            $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
            {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

            i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.








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          edited 2 days ago

























          answered Nov 27 at 13:12









          Qmechanic

          100k121791123




          100k121791123






















              up vote
              4
              down vote













              You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



              For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



              $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



              The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                4
                down vote













                You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



                For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



                $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



                The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote









                  You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



                  For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



                  $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



                  The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



                  For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



                  $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



                  The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 27 at 13:07









                  kryomaxim

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                  1,572620






























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