Pronunciation of PhD
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Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
EDIT: Thanks for answers. To be clear. I asked this because of it is not the three letters P.h.D. Why we read it not as /ɛf diː/?
pronunciation
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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show 8 more comments
up vote
20
down vote
favorite
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
EDIT: Thanks for answers. To be clear. I asked this because of it is not the three letters P.h.D. Why we read it not as /ɛf diː/?
pronunciation
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
7
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
10
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
9
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
4
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
7
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27
|
show 8 more comments
up vote
20
down vote
favorite
up vote
20
down vote
favorite
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
EDIT: Thanks for answers. To be clear. I asked this because of it is not the three letters P.h.D. Why we read it not as /ɛf diː/?
pronunciation
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
EDIT: Thanks for answers. To be clear. I asked this because of it is not the three letters P.h.D. Why we read it not as /ɛf diː/?
pronunciation
pronunciation
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Nov 27 at 4:31
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
asked Nov 26 at 17:32
Konstantin Morenko
21615
21615
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
7
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
10
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
9
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
4
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
7
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27
|
show 8 more comments
7
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
10
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
9
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
4
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
7
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27
7
7
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
10
10
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
9
9
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
4
4
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
7
7
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27
|
show 8 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
50
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it would be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
|
show 14 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
50
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it would be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
50
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it would be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
50
down vote
up vote
50
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it would be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it would be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
edited Nov 27 at 17:28
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
answered Nov 26 at 19:21
Mark Beadles
19.6k35386
19.6k35386
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
|
show 4 more comments
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
5
5
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 20:53
3
3
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
Nov 26 at 21:38
2
2
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
As a Greek, I can safely upvote this.
– gsamaras
Nov 27 at 9:55
3
3
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
then it be something like "DP" or "DoP" - Note that Oxford University (and possibly others?) awards DPhil instead of PhDs
– Matt Burland
Nov 27 at 16:11
2
2
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
@ChristopherSchultz Most Germans habitually use the letter c for a great many things.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:29
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
|
show 14 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
|
show 14 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
up vote
22
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
answered Nov 26 at 17:41
Carly
1,489213
1,489213
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
|
show 14 more comments
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
6
6
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
Well, PhD isn't a strict English initialism since Ph isn't an English letter. This answer rather begs the question, why do we consider PhD an initialism and not an acronym?
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 17:53
1
1
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
Likely to distinguish it from other more comment "P-D" abbreviations, like "police department" or "private detective;" the "H" is likely explicitly called out as a courtesy to the listener, like the phrase "Phat as in p-h"
– Carly
Nov 26 at 17:55
1
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
Nov 26 at 19:13
3
3
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
Nov 26 at 20:16
5
5
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
Nov 26 at 21:14
|
show 14 more comments
Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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7
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
Nov 26 at 17:41
10
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 26 at 19:59
9
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
Nov 26 at 19:59
4
You can call NaCl enn-ay-see-ell, or you can call it sodium chloride, or you can call it salt, but you can't call it nackel.
– Michael Kay
Nov 27 at 15:58
7
@Fattie This is not an ELL question by any possible stretch of the imagination. No amount of learning English will teach you why PhD is pronounced as it is, and the answer is not one that any English speaker will know by dint of being an English speaker. You may find it tedious, but it is actually a very interesting and profound question that is very much an ELU question.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 27 at 20:27