What's the cardinality of all sequences with coefficients in an infinite set?











up vote
9
down vote

favorite
3












My motivation for asking this question is that a classmate of mine asked me some kind of question that made me think of this one. I can't recall his exact question because he is kind of messy (both when talking about math and when thinking about math).



I'm kind of stuck though. I feel like the set $A^{mathbb{N}} = {f: mathbb{N} rightarrow A, f text{ is a function} }$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite. On the other hand, in this post, it is stated that the sequences with real coefficients have the same cardinality as the reals.



It's easy to see that $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq P(A)$, but (obviously) I got stuck on the other inclusion. Is there any general result that says anything else? References would be appreciated.



EDIT To clarify the intetion of this question: I want to know if there are any general results on the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ other that it is strictly less than that of the power set of A.



Also, I was aware that the other inclusion isn't true in general (as the post on here I linked to gave a counterexample), but thanks for pointing out why too. :)










share|cite|improve this question
























  • In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
    – Katriel
    Dec 15 '10 at 17:31










  • Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
    – Hendrik Vogt
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:16










  • The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
    – Andrés E. Caicedo
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:43












  • @Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
    – Andy
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:03










  • Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:14















up vote
9
down vote

favorite
3












My motivation for asking this question is that a classmate of mine asked me some kind of question that made me think of this one. I can't recall his exact question because he is kind of messy (both when talking about math and when thinking about math).



I'm kind of stuck though. I feel like the set $A^{mathbb{N}} = {f: mathbb{N} rightarrow A, f text{ is a function} }$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite. On the other hand, in this post, it is stated that the sequences with real coefficients have the same cardinality as the reals.



It's easy to see that $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq P(A)$, but (obviously) I got stuck on the other inclusion. Is there any general result that says anything else? References would be appreciated.



EDIT To clarify the intetion of this question: I want to know if there are any general results on the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ other that it is strictly less than that of the power set of A.



Also, I was aware that the other inclusion isn't true in general (as the post on here I linked to gave a counterexample), but thanks for pointing out why too. :)










share|cite|improve this question
























  • In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
    – Katriel
    Dec 15 '10 at 17:31










  • Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
    – Hendrik Vogt
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:16










  • The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
    – Andrés E. Caicedo
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:43












  • @Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
    – Andy
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:03










  • Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:14













up vote
9
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
9
down vote

favorite
3






3





My motivation for asking this question is that a classmate of mine asked me some kind of question that made me think of this one. I can't recall his exact question because he is kind of messy (both when talking about math and when thinking about math).



I'm kind of stuck though. I feel like the set $A^{mathbb{N}} = {f: mathbb{N} rightarrow A, f text{ is a function} }$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite. On the other hand, in this post, it is stated that the sequences with real coefficients have the same cardinality as the reals.



It's easy to see that $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq P(A)$, but (obviously) I got stuck on the other inclusion. Is there any general result that says anything else? References would be appreciated.



EDIT To clarify the intetion of this question: I want to know if there are any general results on the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ other that it is strictly less than that of the power set of A.



Also, I was aware that the other inclusion isn't true in general (as the post on here I linked to gave a counterexample), but thanks for pointing out why too. :)










share|cite|improve this question















My motivation for asking this question is that a classmate of mine asked me some kind of question that made me think of this one. I can't recall his exact question because he is kind of messy (both when talking about math and when thinking about math).



I'm kind of stuck though. I feel like the set $A^{mathbb{N}} = {f: mathbb{N} rightarrow A, f text{ is a function} }$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite. On the other hand, in this post, it is stated that the sequences with real coefficients have the same cardinality as the reals.



It's easy to see that $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq P(A)$, but (obviously) I got stuck on the other inclusion. Is there any general result that says anything else? References would be appreciated.



EDIT To clarify the intetion of this question: I want to know if there are any general results on the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ other that it is strictly less than that of the power set of A.



Also, I was aware that the other inclusion isn't true in general (as the post on here I linked to gave a counterexample), but thanks for pointing out why too. :)







elementary-set-theory cardinals






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:20









Community

1




1










asked Dec 15 '10 at 17:15









Andy

1,61411531




1,61411531












  • In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
    – Katriel
    Dec 15 '10 at 17:31










  • Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
    – Hendrik Vogt
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:16










  • The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
    – Andrés E. Caicedo
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:43












  • @Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
    – Andy
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:03










  • Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:14


















  • In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
    – Katriel
    Dec 15 '10 at 17:31










  • Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
    – Hendrik Vogt
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:16










  • The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
    – Andrés E. Caicedo
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:43












  • @Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
    – Andy
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:03










  • Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 15 '10 at 19:14
















In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
– Katriel
Dec 15 '10 at 17:31




In general $mathcal{P}A notsubseteq A^mathbb{N}$... intuitively, because you can't label all the elements of $A$ by only countably many labels!
– Katriel
Dec 15 '10 at 17:31












Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
– Hendrik Vogt
Dec 15 '10 at 18:16




Maybe you rather feel like the set ${mathbb{N}}^A$ should have the same cardinality as the power set of A, if A is infinite?
– Hendrik Vogt
Dec 15 '10 at 18:16












The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
Dec 15 '10 at 18:43






The containment $A^{mathbb N}subseteq{mathcal P}(A)$ is false. There is a difference between the collection of countable subsets of $A$ and the collection of (countable) sequences from $A$. The difference is irrelevant under the axiom of choice for $A$ infinite, but may matter in contexts where choice is not assumed.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
Dec 15 '10 at 18:43














@Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
– Andy
Dec 15 '10 at 19:03




@Andres Caicedo: thanks for pointing that out. I'm used to assume AC, so I rarely imagine how to do things without it (also because I'm not that good still). What was in my mind was something like this: $A^{mathbb{N}} subseteq A^A cong P(A)$ by "$cong$" I mean "in bijection with".
– Andy
Dec 15 '10 at 19:03












Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
– Asaf Karagila
Dec 15 '10 at 19:14




Mathematics without choice is very very very weird. Just take a look at the wikipedia entry for AC, there's a short list of examples for things that happen without choice (I recently purchased Jech's book "The Axiom of Choice" in which there are many properties, theorems and proofs involving the negation of choice. Sounds mighty fun.)
– Asaf Karagila
Dec 15 '10 at 19:14










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
12
down vote



accepted










From Jech's Set Theory, we have the following theorems on cardinal exponentiation (a Corollary on page 49):



Theorem. For all $alpha,beta$, the value of $aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}}$ is always either:




  • $2^{aleph_{beta}}$; or

  • $aleph_{alpha}$; or

  • $aleph_{gamma}^{mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}}$ for some $gammaleqalpha$ where $aleph_{gamma}$ is such that $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}leqaleph_{beta}ltaleph_{gamma}$.


Here, $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}$ is the cofinality of $aleph_{gamma}$: the cofinality of a cardinal $kappa$ (or of any limit ordinal) is the least limit ordinal $delta$ such that there is an increasing $delta$-sequence $langle alpha_{zeta}mid zetaltdeltarangle$ with $limlimits_{zetatodelta} = kappa$. The cofinality is always a cardinal, so it makes sense to understand the operations above as cardinal operations.



Corollary. If the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis holds, then
$$aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}} = left{begin{array}{lcl}
aleph_{alpha} &quad & mbox{if $aleph_{beta}ltmathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}$;}\
aleph_{alpha+1} &&mbox{if $mathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}leqaleph_{alpha}$;}\
aleph_{beta+1} &&mbox{if $aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}$.}
end{array}right.$$



So, under GCH, for all cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality greater than $aleph_0$ have $kappa^{aleph_0} = kappa$, and for cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality $aleph_0$ (e.g., $aleph_0$, $aleph_{omega}$), we have $kappa^{aleph_0} = 2^{kappa}$. (In particular, it is not the case the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ is necessarily less than the cardinality of $mathcal{P}(A)$).



Then again, GCH is usually considered "boring" by set theorists, from what I understand.






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 2




    Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:24










  • @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
    – Arturo Magidin
    Dec 15 '10 at 18:27










  • If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
    – goblin
    May 2 '14 at 3:15




















up vote
4
down vote













Arturo Magidin's answer has the general theorem. Here are two more facts that can be useful:




  • If $aleph_0 leq lambda$ and $2 leq kappa leq lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = 2^lambda = |P(lambda)|$


  • If $aleph_0 leq lambda leq kappa$ then $kappa^lambda = |{ X subseteq kappa : |X| = lambda }|$







share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Take $A = mathbb{R}$ then you have:



    $|A| = 2^{aleph_0}$ and so $|A^mathbb{N}| = (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0cdotaleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0} = |A| < |mathcal{P}(A)|$.



    Addendum:



    To the comment, as well as a small "obvious" remark that should probably be mentioned - if $kappa>1$ and $lambdagealeph_0$ are two cardinal numbers, to "generate" a relatively small (although this is a bad term, as it is consistent that this size is pretty much unbounded) cardinal which is invariant under powers of $lambda$, one can always take $kappa^lambda$. The above computation is as good for this case to show that the result has this property.



    It is also obvious that if $kappa$ is already invariant under powers of $lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = kappa$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
      – Andy
      Dec 15 '10 at 17:31






    • 1




      Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
      – Asaf Karagila
      Dec 15 '10 at 18:33


















    up vote
    3
    down vote













    If $A$ is countably infinite, then the cardinality of $A^{Bbb N}$ equals the cardinality of the reals: $|A^{Bbb N}|=|A|^{|Bbb N|}=aleph_0^{aleph_0}leq (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0}=|Bbb R|$ and $aleph_0^{aleph_0}geq 2^{aleph_0}$ together gives $|A^{Bbb N}|=|Bbb R|$.



    See the Wikipedia page on cardinal numbers.



    As shown by Asaf in his answer, $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$ if $|A|=2^{aleph_0}$. It follows easily that if $aleph_0leq|A|leq2^{aleph_0}$, then still $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$.



    When $A>2^{aleph_0}$, things start to become complicated, and depends on whether you assume the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis or not. See for example these notes by Charles Morgan.






    share|cite|improve this answer























      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f14429%2fwhats-the-cardinality-of-all-sequences-with-coefficients-in-an-infinite-set%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      12
      down vote



      accepted










      From Jech's Set Theory, we have the following theorems on cardinal exponentiation (a Corollary on page 49):



      Theorem. For all $alpha,beta$, the value of $aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}}$ is always either:




      • $2^{aleph_{beta}}$; or

      • $aleph_{alpha}$; or

      • $aleph_{gamma}^{mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}}$ for some $gammaleqalpha$ where $aleph_{gamma}$ is such that $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}leqaleph_{beta}ltaleph_{gamma}$.


      Here, $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}$ is the cofinality of $aleph_{gamma}$: the cofinality of a cardinal $kappa$ (or of any limit ordinal) is the least limit ordinal $delta$ such that there is an increasing $delta$-sequence $langle alpha_{zeta}mid zetaltdeltarangle$ with $limlimits_{zetatodelta} = kappa$. The cofinality is always a cardinal, so it makes sense to understand the operations above as cardinal operations.



      Corollary. If the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis holds, then
      $$aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}} = left{begin{array}{lcl}
      aleph_{alpha} &quad & mbox{if $aleph_{beta}ltmathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{alpha+1} &&mbox{if $mathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}leqaleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{beta+1} &&mbox{if $aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}$.}
      end{array}right.$$



      So, under GCH, for all cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality greater than $aleph_0$ have $kappa^{aleph_0} = kappa$, and for cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality $aleph_0$ (e.g., $aleph_0$, $aleph_{omega}$), we have $kappa^{aleph_0} = 2^{kappa}$. (In particular, it is not the case the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ is necessarily less than the cardinality of $mathcal{P}(A)$).



      Then again, GCH is usually considered "boring" by set theorists, from what I understand.






      share|cite|improve this answer



















      • 2




        Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
        – Asaf Karagila
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:24










      • @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
        – Arturo Magidin
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:27










      • If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
        – goblin
        May 2 '14 at 3:15

















      up vote
      12
      down vote



      accepted










      From Jech's Set Theory, we have the following theorems on cardinal exponentiation (a Corollary on page 49):



      Theorem. For all $alpha,beta$, the value of $aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}}$ is always either:




      • $2^{aleph_{beta}}$; or

      • $aleph_{alpha}$; or

      • $aleph_{gamma}^{mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}}$ for some $gammaleqalpha$ where $aleph_{gamma}$ is such that $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}leqaleph_{beta}ltaleph_{gamma}$.


      Here, $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}$ is the cofinality of $aleph_{gamma}$: the cofinality of a cardinal $kappa$ (or of any limit ordinal) is the least limit ordinal $delta$ such that there is an increasing $delta$-sequence $langle alpha_{zeta}mid zetaltdeltarangle$ with $limlimits_{zetatodelta} = kappa$. The cofinality is always a cardinal, so it makes sense to understand the operations above as cardinal operations.



      Corollary. If the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis holds, then
      $$aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}} = left{begin{array}{lcl}
      aleph_{alpha} &quad & mbox{if $aleph_{beta}ltmathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{alpha+1} &&mbox{if $mathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}leqaleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{beta+1} &&mbox{if $aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}$.}
      end{array}right.$$



      So, under GCH, for all cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality greater than $aleph_0$ have $kappa^{aleph_0} = kappa$, and for cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality $aleph_0$ (e.g., $aleph_0$, $aleph_{omega}$), we have $kappa^{aleph_0} = 2^{kappa}$. (In particular, it is not the case the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ is necessarily less than the cardinality of $mathcal{P}(A)$).



      Then again, GCH is usually considered "boring" by set theorists, from what I understand.






      share|cite|improve this answer



















      • 2




        Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
        – Asaf Karagila
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:24










      • @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
        – Arturo Magidin
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:27










      • If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
        – goblin
        May 2 '14 at 3:15















      up vote
      12
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      12
      down vote



      accepted






      From Jech's Set Theory, we have the following theorems on cardinal exponentiation (a Corollary on page 49):



      Theorem. For all $alpha,beta$, the value of $aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}}$ is always either:




      • $2^{aleph_{beta}}$; or

      • $aleph_{alpha}$; or

      • $aleph_{gamma}^{mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}}$ for some $gammaleqalpha$ where $aleph_{gamma}$ is such that $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}leqaleph_{beta}ltaleph_{gamma}$.


      Here, $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}$ is the cofinality of $aleph_{gamma}$: the cofinality of a cardinal $kappa$ (or of any limit ordinal) is the least limit ordinal $delta$ such that there is an increasing $delta$-sequence $langle alpha_{zeta}mid zetaltdeltarangle$ with $limlimits_{zetatodelta} = kappa$. The cofinality is always a cardinal, so it makes sense to understand the operations above as cardinal operations.



      Corollary. If the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis holds, then
      $$aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}} = left{begin{array}{lcl}
      aleph_{alpha} &quad & mbox{if $aleph_{beta}ltmathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{alpha+1} &&mbox{if $mathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}leqaleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{beta+1} &&mbox{if $aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}$.}
      end{array}right.$$



      So, under GCH, for all cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality greater than $aleph_0$ have $kappa^{aleph_0} = kappa$, and for cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality $aleph_0$ (e.g., $aleph_0$, $aleph_{omega}$), we have $kappa^{aleph_0} = 2^{kappa}$. (In particular, it is not the case the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ is necessarily less than the cardinality of $mathcal{P}(A)$).



      Then again, GCH is usually considered "boring" by set theorists, from what I understand.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      From Jech's Set Theory, we have the following theorems on cardinal exponentiation (a Corollary on page 49):



      Theorem. For all $alpha,beta$, the value of $aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}}$ is always either:




      • $2^{aleph_{beta}}$; or

      • $aleph_{alpha}$; or

      • $aleph_{gamma}^{mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}}$ for some $gammaleqalpha$ where $aleph_{gamma}$ is such that $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}leqaleph_{beta}ltaleph_{gamma}$.


      Here, $mathrm{cf};aleph_{gamma}$ is the cofinality of $aleph_{gamma}$: the cofinality of a cardinal $kappa$ (or of any limit ordinal) is the least limit ordinal $delta$ such that there is an increasing $delta$-sequence $langle alpha_{zeta}mid zetaltdeltarangle$ with $limlimits_{zetatodelta} = kappa$. The cofinality is always a cardinal, so it makes sense to understand the operations above as cardinal operations.



      Corollary. If the Generalized Continuum Hypothesis holds, then
      $$aleph_{alpha}^{aleph_{beta}} = left{begin{array}{lcl}
      aleph_{alpha} &quad & mbox{if $aleph_{beta}ltmathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{alpha+1} &&mbox{if $mathrm{cf};aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}leqaleph_{alpha}$;}\
      aleph_{beta+1} &&mbox{if $aleph_{alpha}leqaleph_{beta}$.}
      end{array}right.$$



      So, under GCH, for all cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality greater than $aleph_0$ have $kappa^{aleph_0} = kappa$, and for cardinals $kappa$ with cofinality $aleph_0$ (e.g., $aleph_0$, $aleph_{omega}$), we have $kappa^{aleph_0} = 2^{kappa}$. (In particular, it is not the case the cardinality of $A^{mathbb{N}}$ is necessarily less than the cardinality of $mathcal{P}(A)$).



      Then again, GCH is usually considered "boring" by set theorists, from what I understand.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Dec 15 '10 at 18:28

























      answered Dec 15 '10 at 17:48









      Arturo Magidin

      259k32581901




      259k32581901








      • 2




        Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
        – Asaf Karagila
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:24










      • @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
        – Arturo Magidin
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:27










      • If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
        – goblin
        May 2 '14 at 3:15
















      • 2




        Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
        – Asaf Karagila
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:24










      • @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
        – Arturo Magidin
        Dec 15 '10 at 18:27










      • If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
        – goblin
        May 2 '14 at 3:15










      2




      2




      Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
      – Asaf Karagila
      Dec 15 '10 at 18:24




      Arturo, as usual a great answer, I'd mention that the cofinality is always a cardinal number as well. As per the last remark about the interest of GCH, in the introduction part of one of the books I read ("Introduction to Cardinal Arithmetic" by three German guys, which I don't recall) they say that if you accept GCH then you are pretty much done with cardinal arithmetic and there is nothing in the book for you ;)
      – Asaf Karagila
      Dec 15 '10 at 18:24












      @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
      – Arturo Magidin
      Dec 15 '10 at 18:27




      @Asaf: Thanks; I'll add the note that the cofinality is always a cardinal.
      – Arturo Magidin
      Dec 15 '10 at 18:27












      If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
      – goblin
      May 2 '14 at 3:15






      If we were to replace $2^{aleph_beta}$ (in the first dot point) with $gimel(aleph_beta)$, would the theorem still hold? Where $gimel kappa$ is just shorthand for $kappa^{mathrm{cf}(kappa)}$; I'm using notation I saw here.
      – goblin
      May 2 '14 at 3:15












      up vote
      4
      down vote













      Arturo Magidin's answer has the general theorem. Here are two more facts that can be useful:




      • If $aleph_0 leq lambda$ and $2 leq kappa leq lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = 2^lambda = |P(lambda)|$


      • If $aleph_0 leq lambda leq kappa$ then $kappa^lambda = |{ X subseteq kappa : |X| = lambda }|$







      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        4
        down vote













        Arturo Magidin's answer has the general theorem. Here are two more facts that can be useful:




        • If $aleph_0 leq lambda$ and $2 leq kappa leq lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = 2^lambda = |P(lambda)|$


        • If $aleph_0 leq lambda leq kappa$ then $kappa^lambda = |{ X subseteq kappa : |X| = lambda }|$







        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          4
          down vote










          up vote
          4
          down vote









          Arturo Magidin's answer has the general theorem. Here are two more facts that can be useful:




          • If $aleph_0 leq lambda$ and $2 leq kappa leq lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = 2^lambda = |P(lambda)|$


          • If $aleph_0 leq lambda leq kappa$ then $kappa^lambda = |{ X subseteq kappa : |X| = lambda }|$







          share|cite|improve this answer












          Arturo Magidin's answer has the general theorem. Here are two more facts that can be useful:




          • If $aleph_0 leq lambda$ and $2 leq kappa leq lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = 2^lambda = |P(lambda)|$


          • If $aleph_0 leq lambda leq kappa$ then $kappa^lambda = |{ X subseteq kappa : |X| = lambda }|$








          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 15 '10 at 18:08









          Carl Mummert

          65.5k7130244




          65.5k7130244






















              up vote
              4
              down vote













              Take $A = mathbb{R}$ then you have:



              $|A| = 2^{aleph_0}$ and so $|A^mathbb{N}| = (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0cdotaleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0} = |A| < |mathcal{P}(A)|$.



              Addendum:



              To the comment, as well as a small "obvious" remark that should probably be mentioned - if $kappa>1$ and $lambdagealeph_0$ are two cardinal numbers, to "generate" a relatively small (although this is a bad term, as it is consistent that this size is pretty much unbounded) cardinal which is invariant under powers of $lambda$, one can always take $kappa^lambda$. The above computation is as good for this case to show that the result has this property.



              It is also obvious that if $kappa$ is already invariant under powers of $lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = kappa$.






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
                – Andy
                Dec 15 '10 at 17:31






              • 1




                Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
                – Asaf Karagila
                Dec 15 '10 at 18:33















              up vote
              4
              down vote













              Take $A = mathbb{R}$ then you have:



              $|A| = 2^{aleph_0}$ and so $|A^mathbb{N}| = (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0cdotaleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0} = |A| < |mathcal{P}(A)|$.



              Addendum:



              To the comment, as well as a small "obvious" remark that should probably be mentioned - if $kappa>1$ and $lambdagealeph_0$ are two cardinal numbers, to "generate" a relatively small (although this is a bad term, as it is consistent that this size is pretty much unbounded) cardinal which is invariant under powers of $lambda$, one can always take $kappa^lambda$. The above computation is as good for this case to show that the result has this property.



              It is also obvious that if $kappa$ is already invariant under powers of $lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = kappa$.






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
                – Andy
                Dec 15 '10 at 17:31






              • 1




                Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
                – Asaf Karagila
                Dec 15 '10 at 18:33













              up vote
              4
              down vote










              up vote
              4
              down vote









              Take $A = mathbb{R}$ then you have:



              $|A| = 2^{aleph_0}$ and so $|A^mathbb{N}| = (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0cdotaleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0} = |A| < |mathcal{P}(A)|$.



              Addendum:



              To the comment, as well as a small "obvious" remark that should probably be mentioned - if $kappa>1$ and $lambdagealeph_0$ are two cardinal numbers, to "generate" a relatively small (although this is a bad term, as it is consistent that this size is pretty much unbounded) cardinal which is invariant under powers of $lambda$, one can always take $kappa^lambda$. The above computation is as good for this case to show that the result has this property.



              It is also obvious that if $kappa$ is already invariant under powers of $lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = kappa$.






              share|cite|improve this answer














              Take $A = mathbb{R}$ then you have:



              $|A| = 2^{aleph_0}$ and so $|A^mathbb{N}| = (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0cdotaleph_0} = 2^{aleph_0} = |A| < |mathcal{P}(A)|$.



              Addendum:



              To the comment, as well as a small "obvious" remark that should probably be mentioned - if $kappa>1$ and $lambdagealeph_0$ are two cardinal numbers, to "generate" a relatively small (although this is a bad term, as it is consistent that this size is pretty much unbounded) cardinal which is invariant under powers of $lambda$, one can always take $kappa^lambda$. The above computation is as good for this case to show that the result has this property.



              It is also obvious that if $kappa$ is already invariant under powers of $lambda$ then $kappa^lambda = kappa$.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Dec 15 '10 at 18:31

























              answered Dec 15 '10 at 17:28









              Asaf Karagila

              299k32420750




              299k32420750












              • Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
                – Andy
                Dec 15 '10 at 17:31






              • 1




                Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
                – Asaf Karagila
                Dec 15 '10 at 18:33


















              • Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
                – Andy
                Dec 15 '10 at 17:31






              • 1




                Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
                – Asaf Karagila
                Dec 15 '10 at 18:33
















              Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
              – Andy
              Dec 15 '10 at 17:31




              Yes, exactly. That's the point of my question: since there is an easy counterexample to my intuition, I was wondering if there were any results that said something specific about the cardinality of this set. Since just saying that $left|A^{mathbb{N}}right| < left|P(A)right|$ isn't much of a result (see my remark about the inclusion). Sorry if I wasn't really clear.
              – Andy
              Dec 15 '10 at 17:31




              1




              1




              Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
              – Asaf Karagila
              Dec 15 '10 at 18:33




              Andy, very well. I have added an obvious remark, that probably has very little use for a development of intuition, but it pretty much states all there is to say about cardinals which are invariants under exponentiation of $aleph_0$ (or any other cardinal for that matter).
              – Asaf Karagila
              Dec 15 '10 at 18:33










              up vote
              3
              down vote













              If $A$ is countably infinite, then the cardinality of $A^{Bbb N}$ equals the cardinality of the reals: $|A^{Bbb N}|=|A|^{|Bbb N|}=aleph_0^{aleph_0}leq (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0}=|Bbb R|$ and $aleph_0^{aleph_0}geq 2^{aleph_0}$ together gives $|A^{Bbb N}|=|Bbb R|$.



              See the Wikipedia page on cardinal numbers.



              As shown by Asaf in his answer, $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$ if $|A|=2^{aleph_0}$. It follows easily that if $aleph_0leq|A|leq2^{aleph_0}$, then still $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$.



              When $A>2^{aleph_0}$, things start to become complicated, and depends on whether you assume the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis or not. See for example these notes by Charles Morgan.






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                3
                down vote













                If $A$ is countably infinite, then the cardinality of $A^{Bbb N}$ equals the cardinality of the reals: $|A^{Bbb N}|=|A|^{|Bbb N|}=aleph_0^{aleph_0}leq (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0}=|Bbb R|$ and $aleph_0^{aleph_0}geq 2^{aleph_0}$ together gives $|A^{Bbb N}|=|Bbb R|$.



                See the Wikipedia page on cardinal numbers.



                As shown by Asaf in his answer, $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$ if $|A|=2^{aleph_0}$. It follows easily that if $aleph_0leq|A|leq2^{aleph_0}$, then still $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$.



                When $A>2^{aleph_0}$, things start to become complicated, and depends on whether you assume the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis or not. See for example these notes by Charles Morgan.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  If $A$ is countably infinite, then the cardinality of $A^{Bbb N}$ equals the cardinality of the reals: $|A^{Bbb N}|=|A|^{|Bbb N|}=aleph_0^{aleph_0}leq (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0}=|Bbb R|$ and $aleph_0^{aleph_0}geq 2^{aleph_0}$ together gives $|A^{Bbb N}|=|Bbb R|$.



                  See the Wikipedia page on cardinal numbers.



                  As shown by Asaf in his answer, $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$ if $|A|=2^{aleph_0}$. It follows easily that if $aleph_0leq|A|leq2^{aleph_0}$, then still $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$.



                  When $A>2^{aleph_0}$, things start to become complicated, and depends on whether you assume the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis or not. See for example these notes by Charles Morgan.






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  If $A$ is countably infinite, then the cardinality of $A^{Bbb N}$ equals the cardinality of the reals: $|A^{Bbb N}|=|A|^{|Bbb N|}=aleph_0^{aleph_0}leq (2^{aleph_0})^{aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0aleph_0}=2^{aleph_0}=|Bbb R|$ and $aleph_0^{aleph_0}geq 2^{aleph_0}$ together gives $|A^{Bbb N}|=|Bbb R|$.



                  See the Wikipedia page on cardinal numbers.



                  As shown by Asaf in his answer, $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$ if $|A|=2^{aleph_0}$. It follows easily that if $aleph_0leq|A|leq2^{aleph_0}$, then still $|A^{Bbb N}|=2^{aleph_0}$.



                  When $A>2^{aleph_0}$, things start to become complicated, and depends on whether you assume the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis or not. See for example these notes by Charles Morgan.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 15 '10 at 17:49

























                  answered Dec 15 '10 at 17:39









                  Konrad Swanepoel

                  29227




                  29227






























                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded



















































                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f14429%2fwhats-the-cardinality-of-all-sequences-with-coefficients-in-an-infinite-set%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      AnyDesk - Fatal Program Failure

                      How to calibrate 16:9 built-in touch-screen to a 4:3 resolution?

                      QoS: MAC-Priority for clients behind a repeater