A subgroup $H$ of $G$ is normal iff for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H iff ba in H$.
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I need to show the following:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.
I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.
I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:
Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.
For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
I need to show the following:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.
I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.
I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:
Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.
For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification
1
Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
I need to show the following:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.
I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.
I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:
Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.
For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification
I need to show the following:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.
I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:
Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.
I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:
Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.
For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification
edited Nov 17 at 5:54
Brahadeesh
5,78441957
5,78441957
asked Feb 18 at 15:32
Ashish K
775513
775513
1
Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38
add a comment |
1
Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38
1
1
Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38
Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.
Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).
forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).
answered Feb 18 at 15:38
Max Freiburghaus
1,030310
1,030310
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
add a comment |
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
– Ashish K
Feb 18 at 15:45
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
– Max Freiburghaus
Feb 18 at 15:47
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.
Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.
Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.
Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.
A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.
Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.
answered Feb 18 at 19:57
tomasz
23.3k23178
23.3k23178
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38