A subgroup $H$ of $G$ is normal iff for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H iff ba in H$.











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I need to show the following:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.




I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.




I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:



Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.



For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?










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  • 1




    Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
    – lulu
    Feb 18 at 15:38















up vote
5
down vote

favorite












I need to show the following:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.




I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.




I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:



Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.



For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
    – lulu
    Feb 18 at 15:38













up vote
5
down vote

favorite









up vote
5
down vote

favorite











I need to show the following:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.




I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.




I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:



Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.



For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?










share|cite|improve this question















I need to show the following:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is normal iff it has the following
property: for all $a,b in G$, $ab in H$ iff $ba in H$.




I have to use the following definition of a normal subgroup:




Let $H$ be a subgroup of $G$. $H$ is called a normal subgroup of $G$
if it is closed with respect to conjugates, i.e. if for any $a in H$
and $x in G$, $xax^{-1} in H$.




I tried to prove the $(Rightarrow )$ part, but I could not suceed. However, I proved the $(Leftarrow )$ part.
Here it is:



Let $h in H$ be arbitrary. Then for any $xin G$, $eh = (x^{-1}x)h=(x^{-1})(xh) in H$. Hence, it follows by the property that $(x^{-1})(xh) in H Rightarrow xhx^{-1} in H$. Thus, we are done.



For the $(Rightarrow )$ part, I know I need to pick any $a, b in G$ and assume $ab in H$ then I need to show $ba in H$ and also show the converse. Here's how I start: since $ab in H$, for any $xin G$, we have $xabx^{-1} in H$. I tried a couple of things but I didn't get anywhere. Can I get some hints?







abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification






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edited Nov 17 at 5:54









Brahadeesh

5,78441957




5,78441957










asked Feb 18 at 15:32









Ashish K

775513




775513








  • 1




    Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
    – lulu
    Feb 18 at 15:38














  • 1




    Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
    – lulu
    Feb 18 at 15:38








1




1




Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38




Well...can you think of any inner automorphism of $G$ that takes $ab$ to $ba$?
– lulu
Feb 18 at 15:38










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
10
down vote



accepted










forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
    – Ashish K
    Feb 18 at 15:45










  • You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
    – Max Freiburghaus
    Feb 18 at 15:47


















up vote
0
down vote













A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.



Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.






share|cite|improve this answer





















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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    10
    down vote



    accepted










    forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
      – Ashish K
      Feb 18 at 15:45










    • You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
      – Max Freiburghaus
      Feb 18 at 15:47















    up vote
    10
    down vote



    accepted










    forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
      – Ashish K
      Feb 18 at 15:45










    • You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
      – Max Freiburghaus
      Feb 18 at 15:47













    up vote
    10
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    10
    down vote



    accepted






    forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).






    share|cite|improve this answer












    forward implication: Let $ab in H$: Since $H$ is normal, then also $a^{-1}aba=ba in H$. (The other implication of the property follows by its symmetry in $a$ and $b$).







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Feb 18 at 15:38









    Max Freiburghaus

    1,030310




    1,030310












    • Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
      – Ashish K
      Feb 18 at 15:45










    • You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
      – Max Freiburghaus
      Feb 18 at 15:47


















    • Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
      – Ashish K
      Feb 18 at 15:45










    • You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
      – Max Freiburghaus
      Feb 18 at 15:47
















    Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
    – Ashish K
    Feb 18 at 15:45




    Arghh! It's a shame I wasn't able to get that!
    – Ashish K
    Feb 18 at 15:45












    You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
    – Max Freiburghaus
    Feb 18 at 15:47




    You basically had it. Maybe you just needed a break.
    – Max Freiburghaus
    Feb 18 at 15:47










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.



    Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.



      Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.



        Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        A different way to see it: $abin H$ if and only if $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$. $bain H$ if and only if $b$ and $a^{-1}$ are in the same right coset of $H$, which is equivalent to saying that $a$ and $b^{-1}$ are in the same left coset of $H$.



        Thus the property under consideration means exactly that left and right cosets coincide, which you can probably easily see as equivalent to the definition you have given.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Feb 18 at 19:57









        tomasz

        23.3k23178




        23.3k23178






























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