What is the proof that first countable is sufficient to say that sequentially closed implies closed











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I've seen this statement quoted many times but I've been unable to find a proof of the statement.



I've been attempting to prove it myself with the following method:



Let $X$ be a topological space, with $Asubseteq X$ sequentially closed



Assume $A$ not closed. So there exists an $xin Xsetminus A$ such that every open set containing $x$ intersects with $A$.



So let $B_n$ be the countable neighbourhood basis at $x$.



And then define a sequence $x_n$ such that $x_nin B_ncap A$.



But this is where I'm stuck. I can't figure out how to show that $x_n$ approaches $x$.



Clearly every open set $C$ containing $x$ also contains a $B_i$ in the basis. and so it contains the corresponding $x_i$, but it seems that I would need some sort of nesting property on the neighbourhood basis (so that it looks like the open balls in $mathbb R^n$ ) to show that the entirety of the tail of the sequence is contained in it.



So I went on in an attempt to prove some kind of nesting statement (which required $T^1$) but then it didn't even help prove the statement anyway because what I chose to prove wasn't powerful enough.



I'm realising that I will need to manipulate the basis $B_i$ in some way to approximate the nesting, because obviously leaving an arbitrary order for the basis won't force $x_n$ to approach $x$ (for example, in $mathbb R$. let $B_n$ be the ball of radius $frac1n$ when $n$ is even, and $B_n$ is the ball of radius 1 when $n$ is odd.)



Any advice for how to proceed or simply an example of the proof would be greatly appreciated.










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    up vote
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    down vote

    favorite












    I've seen this statement quoted many times but I've been unable to find a proof of the statement.



    I've been attempting to prove it myself with the following method:



    Let $X$ be a topological space, with $Asubseteq X$ sequentially closed



    Assume $A$ not closed. So there exists an $xin Xsetminus A$ such that every open set containing $x$ intersects with $A$.



    So let $B_n$ be the countable neighbourhood basis at $x$.



    And then define a sequence $x_n$ such that $x_nin B_ncap A$.



    But this is where I'm stuck. I can't figure out how to show that $x_n$ approaches $x$.



    Clearly every open set $C$ containing $x$ also contains a $B_i$ in the basis. and so it contains the corresponding $x_i$, but it seems that I would need some sort of nesting property on the neighbourhood basis (so that it looks like the open balls in $mathbb R^n$ ) to show that the entirety of the tail of the sequence is contained in it.



    So I went on in an attempt to prove some kind of nesting statement (which required $T^1$) but then it didn't even help prove the statement anyway because what I chose to prove wasn't powerful enough.



    I'm realising that I will need to manipulate the basis $B_i$ in some way to approximate the nesting, because obviously leaving an arbitrary order for the basis won't force $x_n$ to approach $x$ (for example, in $mathbb R$. let $B_n$ be the ball of radius $frac1n$ when $n$ is even, and $B_n$ is the ball of radius 1 when $n$ is odd.)



    Any advice for how to proceed or simply an example of the proof would be greatly appreciated.










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      I've seen this statement quoted many times but I've been unable to find a proof of the statement.



      I've been attempting to prove it myself with the following method:



      Let $X$ be a topological space, with $Asubseteq X$ sequentially closed



      Assume $A$ not closed. So there exists an $xin Xsetminus A$ such that every open set containing $x$ intersects with $A$.



      So let $B_n$ be the countable neighbourhood basis at $x$.



      And then define a sequence $x_n$ such that $x_nin B_ncap A$.



      But this is where I'm stuck. I can't figure out how to show that $x_n$ approaches $x$.



      Clearly every open set $C$ containing $x$ also contains a $B_i$ in the basis. and so it contains the corresponding $x_i$, but it seems that I would need some sort of nesting property on the neighbourhood basis (so that it looks like the open balls in $mathbb R^n$ ) to show that the entirety of the tail of the sequence is contained in it.



      So I went on in an attempt to prove some kind of nesting statement (which required $T^1$) but then it didn't even help prove the statement anyway because what I chose to prove wasn't powerful enough.



      I'm realising that I will need to manipulate the basis $B_i$ in some way to approximate the nesting, because obviously leaving an arbitrary order for the basis won't force $x_n$ to approach $x$ (for example, in $mathbb R$. let $B_n$ be the ball of radius $frac1n$ when $n$ is even, and $B_n$ is the ball of radius 1 when $n$ is odd.)



      Any advice for how to proceed or simply an example of the proof would be greatly appreciated.










      share|cite|improve this question













      I've seen this statement quoted many times but I've been unable to find a proof of the statement.



      I've been attempting to prove it myself with the following method:



      Let $X$ be a topological space, with $Asubseteq X$ sequentially closed



      Assume $A$ not closed. So there exists an $xin Xsetminus A$ such that every open set containing $x$ intersects with $A$.



      So let $B_n$ be the countable neighbourhood basis at $x$.



      And then define a sequence $x_n$ such that $x_nin B_ncap A$.



      But this is where I'm stuck. I can't figure out how to show that $x_n$ approaches $x$.



      Clearly every open set $C$ containing $x$ also contains a $B_i$ in the basis. and so it contains the corresponding $x_i$, but it seems that I would need some sort of nesting property on the neighbourhood basis (so that it looks like the open balls in $mathbb R^n$ ) to show that the entirety of the tail of the sequence is contained in it.



      So I went on in an attempt to prove some kind of nesting statement (which required $T^1$) but then it didn't even help prove the statement anyway because what I chose to prove wasn't powerful enough.



      I'm realising that I will need to manipulate the basis $B_i$ in some way to approximate the nesting, because obviously leaving an arbitrary order for the basis won't force $x_n$ to approach $x$ (for example, in $mathbb R$. let $B_n$ be the ball of radius $frac1n$ when $n$ is even, and $B_n$ is the ball of radius 1 when $n$ is odd.)



      Any advice for how to proceed or simply an example of the proof would be greatly appreciated.







      general-topology first-countable






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      asked Nov 17 at 7:46









      S. Teisseire

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          You're right about the nesting: you can force that with just countably many neighbourhoods: if $(B_n), n=0,1,2,ldots$ is a local base at $x$, then define for every $n=0,1,2,ldots$: $O_n = bigcap_{i=0}^n B_i$, which are open neighbourhoods of $x$ as we have finite intersections of open sets. And when $O$ is an open set containing $x$, we have some $m$ with $x in B_m subseteq O$ and then $x in O_m subseteq B_m subseteq O$ as well, so the $O_n$ also form a local base at $x$, but additionally satisfy $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$ for all $n$ (we take the intersection with one more set so we get a smaller set). Now picking the $x_n$ as you do, for the $O_n$ instead of the $B_n$, will work. No $T_1$ is required, as you see.



          Many topologists just assume this basic fact known, and say when we have a first countable space, "let $(B_n)$ be a decreasing (nested) local base at $x$". We can always do this, as we saw, and it has the added benefit that however we choose $x_n in B_n$ we always have a sequence converging to $x$. This is sort of modelled after the standard local base $B(x,frac{1}{n})$ for a metric space, e.g. Often the natural local countable base is already nested.






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            You're right about the nesting: you can force that with just countably many neighbourhoods: if $(B_n), n=0,1,2,ldots$ is a local base at $x$, then define for every $n=0,1,2,ldots$: $O_n = bigcap_{i=0}^n B_i$, which are open neighbourhoods of $x$ as we have finite intersections of open sets. And when $O$ is an open set containing $x$, we have some $m$ with $x in B_m subseteq O$ and then $x in O_m subseteq B_m subseteq O$ as well, so the $O_n$ also form a local base at $x$, but additionally satisfy $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$ for all $n$ (we take the intersection with one more set so we get a smaller set). Now picking the $x_n$ as you do, for the $O_n$ instead of the $B_n$, will work. No $T_1$ is required, as you see.



            Many topologists just assume this basic fact known, and say when we have a first countable space, "let $(B_n)$ be a decreasing (nested) local base at $x$". We can always do this, as we saw, and it has the added benefit that however we choose $x_n in B_n$ we always have a sequence converging to $x$. This is sort of modelled after the standard local base $B(x,frac{1}{n})$ for a metric space, e.g. Often the natural local countable base is already nested.






            share|cite|improve this answer



























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              You're right about the nesting: you can force that with just countably many neighbourhoods: if $(B_n), n=0,1,2,ldots$ is a local base at $x$, then define for every $n=0,1,2,ldots$: $O_n = bigcap_{i=0}^n B_i$, which are open neighbourhoods of $x$ as we have finite intersections of open sets. And when $O$ is an open set containing $x$, we have some $m$ with $x in B_m subseteq O$ and then $x in O_m subseteq B_m subseteq O$ as well, so the $O_n$ also form a local base at $x$, but additionally satisfy $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$ for all $n$ (we take the intersection with one more set so we get a smaller set). Now picking the $x_n$ as you do, for the $O_n$ instead of the $B_n$, will work. No $T_1$ is required, as you see.



              Many topologists just assume this basic fact known, and say when we have a first countable space, "let $(B_n)$ be a decreasing (nested) local base at $x$". We can always do this, as we saw, and it has the added benefit that however we choose $x_n in B_n$ we always have a sequence converging to $x$. This is sort of modelled after the standard local base $B(x,frac{1}{n})$ for a metric space, e.g. Often the natural local countable base is already nested.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote










                up vote
                0
                down vote









                You're right about the nesting: you can force that with just countably many neighbourhoods: if $(B_n), n=0,1,2,ldots$ is a local base at $x$, then define for every $n=0,1,2,ldots$: $O_n = bigcap_{i=0}^n B_i$, which are open neighbourhoods of $x$ as we have finite intersections of open sets. And when $O$ is an open set containing $x$, we have some $m$ with $x in B_m subseteq O$ and then $x in O_m subseteq B_m subseteq O$ as well, so the $O_n$ also form a local base at $x$, but additionally satisfy $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$ for all $n$ (we take the intersection with one more set so we get a smaller set). Now picking the $x_n$ as you do, for the $O_n$ instead of the $B_n$, will work. No $T_1$ is required, as you see.



                Many topologists just assume this basic fact known, and say when we have a first countable space, "let $(B_n)$ be a decreasing (nested) local base at $x$". We can always do this, as we saw, and it has the added benefit that however we choose $x_n in B_n$ we always have a sequence converging to $x$. This is sort of modelled after the standard local base $B(x,frac{1}{n})$ for a metric space, e.g. Often the natural local countable base is already nested.






                share|cite|improve this answer














                You're right about the nesting: you can force that with just countably many neighbourhoods: if $(B_n), n=0,1,2,ldots$ is a local base at $x$, then define for every $n=0,1,2,ldots$: $O_n = bigcap_{i=0}^n B_i$, which are open neighbourhoods of $x$ as we have finite intersections of open sets. And when $O$ is an open set containing $x$, we have some $m$ with $x in B_m subseteq O$ and then $x in O_m subseteq B_m subseteq O$ as well, so the $O_n$ also form a local base at $x$, but additionally satisfy $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$ for all $n$ (we take the intersection with one more set so we get a smaller set). Now picking the $x_n$ as you do, for the $O_n$ instead of the $B_n$, will work. No $T_1$ is required, as you see.



                Many topologists just assume this basic fact known, and say when we have a first countable space, "let $(B_n)$ be a decreasing (nested) local base at $x$". We can always do this, as we saw, and it has the added benefit that however we choose $x_n in B_n$ we always have a sequence converging to $x$. This is sort of modelled after the standard local base $B(x,frac{1}{n})$ for a metric space, e.g. Often the natural local countable base is already nested.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Nov 17 at 8:56

























                answered Nov 17 at 8:07









                Henno Brandsma

                102k344108




                102k344108






























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