Can “illa” be used to mean “there?”











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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?










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  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
    – Hugh
    Nov 30 at 7:03








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    Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Nov 30 at 7:22

















up vote
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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?










share|improve this question









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  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
    – Hugh
    Nov 30 at 7:03








  • 1




    Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Nov 30 at 7:22















up vote
6
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
6
down vote

favorite
1






1






Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Nickimite is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Dīxit, et potentem hastam magnīs vīribus manūs sinistrae in uterum equī iēcit; stetit illa, tremēns.




Does "stetit illa" refer to the spear? As in "it stands there?" Is 'illa' capable of carrying that meaning?







latin-to-english-translation






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edited Nov 30 at 14:53









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  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
    – Hugh
    Nov 30 at 7:03








  • 1




    Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Nov 30 at 7:22




















  • hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
    – Hugh
    Nov 30 at 7:03








  • 1




    Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Nov 30 at 7:22


















hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03






hasta tremens and tremens hasta described as "almost animate" in a footnote to the Aeneid gets hits on the search engine.
– Hugh
Nov 30 at 7:03






1




1




Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta
Nov 30 at 7:22






Welcome to the site! Is this from Wheelock? It would be nice to indicate the source, not only to make it easier for find for those struggling with the same passage.
– Joonas Ilmavirta
Nov 30 at 7:22












4 Answers
4






active

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votes

















up vote
5
down vote



accepted










According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






share|improve this answer





















  • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
    – Joonas Ilmavirta
    Nov 30 at 10:31










  • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
    – cnread
    Nov 30 at 17:51


















up vote
3
down vote













I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



'...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    3
    down vote













    illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



    stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



    Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



    stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






    share|improve this answer








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      down vote













      I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



      Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






      share|improve this answer








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        4 Answers
        4






        active

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        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted










        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer





















        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
          – Joonas Ilmavirta
          Nov 30 at 10:31










        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
          – cnread
          Nov 30 at 17:51















        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted










        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer





















        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
          – Joonas Ilmavirta
          Nov 30 at 10:31










        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
          – cnread
          Nov 30 at 17:51













        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted






        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.






        share|improve this answer












        According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, illa can be adverbial and mean 'there,' but only if it has a long a (illā). Since your text marks long vowels, you know it can't be this.



        With a short a, the only thing it can be in your sentence is the feminine nominative singular form of the demonstrative pronoun. It refers to the hasta.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Nov 30 at 9:59









        cnread

        8,43211124




        8,43211124












        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
          – Joonas Ilmavirta
          Nov 30 at 10:31










        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
          – cnread
          Nov 30 at 17:51


















        • Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
          – Joonas Ilmavirta
          Nov 30 at 10:31










        • @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
          – cnread
          Nov 30 at 17:51
















        Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
        – Joonas Ilmavirta
        Nov 30 at 10:31




        Should the ablative illa be understood with an implicit noun? The typical feminine choices via and re don't seem to make sense.
        – Joonas Ilmavirta
        Nov 30 at 10:31












        @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
        – cnread
        Nov 30 at 17:51




        @JoonasIlmavirta: I'm not sure. Maybe parte?
        – cnread
        Nov 30 at 17:51










        up vote
        3
        down vote













        I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



        Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



        '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          3
          down vote













          I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



          Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



          '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






          share|improve this answer























            up vote
            3
            down vote










            up vote
            3
            down vote









            I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



            Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



            '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'






            share|improve this answer












            I don't know the answer. I don't know if illa could be construed as 'there,' but I haven't come across that use.



            Only, it seems simpler to take illa as nominative, identifying hasta(fem.) as the implied subject of stetit, with the narrator showing that it was not the 'quivering belly (neuter)' or the 'twitching horse (masc)' or the 'shaking spear-thrower (masc)' that stood;



            '...he hurled the spear, it stood quivering.'







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 30 at 7:46









            Hugh

            4,6152616




            4,6152616






















                up vote
                3
                down vote













                illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



                stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



                Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



                stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote













                  illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



                  stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



                  Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



                  stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote









                    illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



                    stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



                    Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



                    stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"






                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                    illa is referring to the spear, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to translate this clause as "There it stood, quivering". Assuming one is trying to evoke the sort of poetic English of e.g. the King James Bible, stetit could be rendered "there stood".



                    stetit hasta tremēns -> "There stood the spear, quivering"



                    Replacing the noun with its prounoun, becomes:



                    stetit illa tremēns -> "There it stood, quivering"







                    share|improve this answer








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                    J. Foster is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                    share|improve this answer






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                    answered Nov 30 at 14:28









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                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote













                        I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                        Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                        share|improve this answer








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                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                          Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




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                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote









                            I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                            Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            I also vote for illa as referring to the spear for the above mentioned reasons, but also because of the switch in subject from iecit = "he threw", to stetit = "it stood". If the illa were not there, the common Latin stylistic preference for omission of explicit subject nouns/pronouns would suggest: " He stood, trembling."



                            Moreover, the perfect tense is used here, indicating conceptually the completion of an event, rather than an ongoing state (imperfect tense). As such, I'd prefer to render stetit as "It stuck there, trembling," giving more a sense that the spear had been thrown, was in motion, and then (completed event) stopped, i.e., came to a "standstill".







                            share|improve this answer








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                            answered Dec 1 at 4:15









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