Help in understanding why the arithmetic derivative is well-defined.












16














I'm reading into the arithmetic derivative at the moment and I just don't get why it is well-defined. For reference, Ufnarovski tried explaining it here on page 2. I would like to understand the not explicitly stated induction. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question





























    16














    I'm reading into the arithmetic derivative at the moment and I just don't get why it is well-defined. For reference, Ufnarovski tried explaining it here on page 2. I would like to understand the not explicitly stated induction. Thanks in advance!










    share|cite|improve this question



























      16












      16








      16


      3





      I'm reading into the arithmetic derivative at the moment and I just don't get why it is well-defined. For reference, Ufnarovski tried explaining it here on page 2. I would like to understand the not explicitly stated induction. Thanks in advance!










      share|cite|improve this question















      I'm reading into the arithmetic derivative at the moment and I just don't get why it is well-defined. For reference, Ufnarovski tried explaining it here on page 2. I would like to understand the not explicitly stated induction. Thanks in advance!







      number-theory elementary-number-theory definition arithmetic-derivative






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 2 '18 at 18:00









      Servaes

      22.4k33793




      22.4k33793










      asked Dec 2 '18 at 14:44









      Flammable Maths

      835




      835






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          13














          To be perfectly frank, any notion is well defined so long as there are no contradictions. Here, we are really just defining a special function from $mathbb{N}$ to $mathbb{N}cup{0}$. So long as it is defined on all inputs then we are technically done.



          There is a small wrinkle that we also want this function to satisfy some properties, but that isn't a real issue; once you have the function written down you just need to verify that the properties hold. In this case, we need to verify two properties:



          1) $p'=1$ for all primes $p$



          2) $(ab)'=a'b+ab'$ for any $a,binmathbb{N}$



          That property 1 is true is obvious from the definition.



          That property 2 is true is less obvious, but the paper you linked goes through the small bit of math necessary to show that the Leibniz rule holds.



          So what have we shown? That the function $(cdot)':mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}cup{0}$ as defined satisfies the two properties we wanted. What is brushed over very lightly is the author's comments that state this function is the only way we can define the notion of arithmetic derivative that we want. But this issue has nothing to do with the fact that our derivative is well-defined. Uniqueness and being well-defined are two separate ideas.



          But let's talk about uniqueness anyway, since that is a part of your post. Suppose you have a two functions $f$ and $g$ that are arithmetic derivatives. What are $f(1)$ and $g(1)$? By the fact that $f$ and $g$ satisfy the Leibniz rule we know that $f(1)=g(1)=0$; the paper even shows the derivation of this fact. Let this sink in; any arithmetic derivative must send $1$ to $0$. Now let's try and do some (strong) induction:



          Assume that for all natural numbers $1leq kleq n$ we have shown that $f(k)=g(k)$. What can we say about $n+1$? If it is prime, then by our first property we see that $f(n+1)=g(n+1)=1$. If it is composite then we may write it as the product of two naturals $a$ and $b$, both of which are less than $n$. Well what is $f(ab)$? By the Leibniz rule and by our inductive hypothesis, we know the following: $$f(n+1)=f(ab)=f(a)b+af(b)=g(a)b+ag(b)=g(ab)=g(n+1)$$



          Thus it must by the case that $f$ and $g$ are the same function, and the arithmetic derivative is unique.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
            – Flammable Maths
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19






          • 1




            @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
            – BlarglFlarg
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19



















          3














          The expression marked (1) is a bit contrived, but it is well-defined because the author implicitly assumes that $n_i>0$ for all $i$ in the expression $n=prod_{i=1}^kp_i^{n_i}$. This determines the $p_i$ and $n_i$ uniquely, because (positive) integers have unique factorizations. Rewriting expression (1) as
          $$n'=nsum_{i=1}^kfrac{n_i}{p_i}=sum_{i=1}n_ifrac{n}{p_i},$$
          shows that $n'$ is an integer, because the $p_i$ divide $n$ and the $n_i$ are integers by definition.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:49








          • 1




            For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:50





















          2














          Unique prime factorization and the Leibniz rule are enough. You can induct on the number of prime factors or on the total number of factors. As an example, suppose $n=p^3q^2r$ with $p,q,r$ prime. You can expand it to $n=pppqqr$ and use Leibniz to get $$n'=p'ppqqr+pp'pqqr+ppp'qqr+pppq'qr+pppqq'r+pppqqr'=3p^2q^2r+2p^3qr+p^3q^2$$

          The point is that any intermediate decomposition of $n$ can be further decomposed into the unique set of prime factors.



          If you look at the formula for the arithmetic derivative in the article, you can just use strong induction on $n$. Assume $n=pq$, with $p,q$ not assumed to be prime. If you know the derivatives of $p,q$ are given by the formula because they are smaller than $n$, you can show the formula holds for $n$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





























            0














            I did a Google search on "arithmetic derivative" and the first two hits were to wikipedia and OEIS.org/wiki. They clearly start by defining it for primes and then, just as for the calculus derivative, the derivative is defined for any product of factors by the Leibniz rule. The key fact is that every integer has an essentially unique factorization into prime factors coupled with the fact that multiplication is associative and commutative. If this were not the case, then there is no reason to expect that you can have a well-defined derivative. The existence and uniqueness of the derivative has to be proved, but unique factorization with associativity and commutativity implies both of these.



            You might want to consider a variation of the arithmetic derivative where $, p'=1 ,$ for all primes $,p,$ and $, (ab)'=a'b+2ab', $ for all rational $,a,b.,$ What goes wrong here?



            Perhaps a simple example will make things clearer. Consider a
            magma or groupoid
            which is a set $A$ with a binary operation $*$. The binary operation
            is not assumed to be associative or commutative. Suppose that the
            magma has a subset of generators $G$. That means that for every
            element $x$ of $A$ there exists a finite number of generator elements
            whose product equals $x$. Note that unless $A$ is freely generated by $G$,
            then there can be more than one way to generate $x$. Now suppose we
            want to define a morphism $f$ of $A$ to another magma $B$. We can
            choose to define $f$ on all the generators $G$. Then we require the
            morphism equation $,f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y),$ for all $x,y$ in $A$.
            If $A$ is freely generated by $G$, then since each element $x$ in $A$
            has a unique expression as a word on $G$, then $f(x)$ is uniquely
            determined by extension using the morphism equation. This is proved
            by induction on the length of the word which expresses $x$.
            If $,A,$ is not freely generated by $G$, then it may be that the
            morphism $,f,$ can not be well-defined.



            Here is a minimal counterexample.
            Let $,A = {a,b},,$ with binary operation $,x*y = x,$ for all $,x,y,$
            in $,A.,$ Let $,B = {0,1},,$ with binary operation $,0cdot x=0,$
            and $,1cdot x=x,$ for all $,x,$ in $,B.,$ No single element of $,A,$
            is a generator so $,G = A,$ is a generating set of $,A,$ but not free
            generators since $,a*b=b.,$. Now suppose that $,f(a)=0, f(b)=1.,$ Check
            that $,f(a*b) = f(b) = 1,$ but $, f(a)cdot f(b) = 0cdot 1 = 0.,$ Now
            $, f(a*b) = 1 ,$ but $, f(a)*f(b) = 0.,$ Therefore $f$ is not a morphism.






            share|cite|improve this answer



















            • 3




              So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
              – Flammable Maths
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:04











            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            });
            });
            }, "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3022717%2fhelp-in-understanding-why-the-arithmetic-derivative-is-well-defined%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            4 Answers
            4






            active

            oldest

            votes








            4 Answers
            4






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            13














            To be perfectly frank, any notion is well defined so long as there are no contradictions. Here, we are really just defining a special function from $mathbb{N}$ to $mathbb{N}cup{0}$. So long as it is defined on all inputs then we are technically done.



            There is a small wrinkle that we also want this function to satisfy some properties, but that isn't a real issue; once you have the function written down you just need to verify that the properties hold. In this case, we need to verify two properties:



            1) $p'=1$ for all primes $p$



            2) $(ab)'=a'b+ab'$ for any $a,binmathbb{N}$



            That property 1 is true is obvious from the definition.



            That property 2 is true is less obvious, but the paper you linked goes through the small bit of math necessary to show that the Leibniz rule holds.



            So what have we shown? That the function $(cdot)':mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}cup{0}$ as defined satisfies the two properties we wanted. What is brushed over very lightly is the author's comments that state this function is the only way we can define the notion of arithmetic derivative that we want. But this issue has nothing to do with the fact that our derivative is well-defined. Uniqueness and being well-defined are two separate ideas.



            But let's talk about uniqueness anyway, since that is a part of your post. Suppose you have a two functions $f$ and $g$ that are arithmetic derivatives. What are $f(1)$ and $g(1)$? By the fact that $f$ and $g$ satisfy the Leibniz rule we know that $f(1)=g(1)=0$; the paper even shows the derivation of this fact. Let this sink in; any arithmetic derivative must send $1$ to $0$. Now let's try and do some (strong) induction:



            Assume that for all natural numbers $1leq kleq n$ we have shown that $f(k)=g(k)$. What can we say about $n+1$? If it is prime, then by our first property we see that $f(n+1)=g(n+1)=1$. If it is composite then we may write it as the product of two naturals $a$ and $b$, both of which are less than $n$. Well what is $f(ab)$? By the Leibniz rule and by our inductive hypothesis, we know the following: $$f(n+1)=f(ab)=f(a)b+af(b)=g(a)b+ag(b)=g(ab)=g(n+1)$$



            Thus it must by the case that $f$ and $g$ are the same function, and the arithmetic derivative is unique.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
              – Flammable Maths
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19






            • 1




              @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
              – BlarglFlarg
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19
















            13














            To be perfectly frank, any notion is well defined so long as there are no contradictions. Here, we are really just defining a special function from $mathbb{N}$ to $mathbb{N}cup{0}$. So long as it is defined on all inputs then we are technically done.



            There is a small wrinkle that we also want this function to satisfy some properties, but that isn't a real issue; once you have the function written down you just need to verify that the properties hold. In this case, we need to verify two properties:



            1) $p'=1$ for all primes $p$



            2) $(ab)'=a'b+ab'$ for any $a,binmathbb{N}$



            That property 1 is true is obvious from the definition.



            That property 2 is true is less obvious, but the paper you linked goes through the small bit of math necessary to show that the Leibniz rule holds.



            So what have we shown? That the function $(cdot)':mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}cup{0}$ as defined satisfies the two properties we wanted. What is brushed over very lightly is the author's comments that state this function is the only way we can define the notion of arithmetic derivative that we want. But this issue has nothing to do with the fact that our derivative is well-defined. Uniqueness and being well-defined are two separate ideas.



            But let's talk about uniqueness anyway, since that is a part of your post. Suppose you have a two functions $f$ and $g$ that are arithmetic derivatives. What are $f(1)$ and $g(1)$? By the fact that $f$ and $g$ satisfy the Leibniz rule we know that $f(1)=g(1)=0$; the paper even shows the derivation of this fact. Let this sink in; any arithmetic derivative must send $1$ to $0$. Now let's try and do some (strong) induction:



            Assume that for all natural numbers $1leq kleq n$ we have shown that $f(k)=g(k)$. What can we say about $n+1$? If it is prime, then by our first property we see that $f(n+1)=g(n+1)=1$. If it is composite then we may write it as the product of two naturals $a$ and $b$, both of which are less than $n$. Well what is $f(ab)$? By the Leibniz rule and by our inductive hypothesis, we know the following: $$f(n+1)=f(ab)=f(a)b+af(b)=g(a)b+ag(b)=g(ab)=g(n+1)$$



            Thus it must by the case that $f$ and $g$ are the same function, and the arithmetic derivative is unique.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
              – Flammable Maths
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19






            • 1




              @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
              – BlarglFlarg
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19














            13












            13








            13






            To be perfectly frank, any notion is well defined so long as there are no contradictions. Here, we are really just defining a special function from $mathbb{N}$ to $mathbb{N}cup{0}$. So long as it is defined on all inputs then we are technically done.



            There is a small wrinkle that we also want this function to satisfy some properties, but that isn't a real issue; once you have the function written down you just need to verify that the properties hold. In this case, we need to verify two properties:



            1) $p'=1$ for all primes $p$



            2) $(ab)'=a'b+ab'$ for any $a,binmathbb{N}$



            That property 1 is true is obvious from the definition.



            That property 2 is true is less obvious, but the paper you linked goes through the small bit of math necessary to show that the Leibniz rule holds.



            So what have we shown? That the function $(cdot)':mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}cup{0}$ as defined satisfies the two properties we wanted. What is brushed over very lightly is the author's comments that state this function is the only way we can define the notion of arithmetic derivative that we want. But this issue has nothing to do with the fact that our derivative is well-defined. Uniqueness and being well-defined are two separate ideas.



            But let's talk about uniqueness anyway, since that is a part of your post. Suppose you have a two functions $f$ and $g$ that are arithmetic derivatives. What are $f(1)$ and $g(1)$? By the fact that $f$ and $g$ satisfy the Leibniz rule we know that $f(1)=g(1)=0$; the paper even shows the derivation of this fact. Let this sink in; any arithmetic derivative must send $1$ to $0$. Now let's try and do some (strong) induction:



            Assume that for all natural numbers $1leq kleq n$ we have shown that $f(k)=g(k)$. What can we say about $n+1$? If it is prime, then by our first property we see that $f(n+1)=g(n+1)=1$. If it is composite then we may write it as the product of two naturals $a$ and $b$, both of which are less than $n$. Well what is $f(ab)$? By the Leibniz rule and by our inductive hypothesis, we know the following: $$f(n+1)=f(ab)=f(a)b+af(b)=g(a)b+ag(b)=g(ab)=g(n+1)$$



            Thus it must by the case that $f$ and $g$ are the same function, and the arithmetic derivative is unique.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            To be perfectly frank, any notion is well defined so long as there are no contradictions. Here, we are really just defining a special function from $mathbb{N}$ to $mathbb{N}cup{0}$. So long as it is defined on all inputs then we are technically done.



            There is a small wrinkle that we also want this function to satisfy some properties, but that isn't a real issue; once you have the function written down you just need to verify that the properties hold. In this case, we need to verify two properties:



            1) $p'=1$ for all primes $p$



            2) $(ab)'=a'b+ab'$ for any $a,binmathbb{N}$



            That property 1 is true is obvious from the definition.



            That property 2 is true is less obvious, but the paper you linked goes through the small bit of math necessary to show that the Leibniz rule holds.



            So what have we shown? That the function $(cdot)':mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}cup{0}$ as defined satisfies the two properties we wanted. What is brushed over very lightly is the author's comments that state this function is the only way we can define the notion of arithmetic derivative that we want. But this issue has nothing to do with the fact that our derivative is well-defined. Uniqueness and being well-defined are two separate ideas.



            But let's talk about uniqueness anyway, since that is a part of your post. Suppose you have a two functions $f$ and $g$ that are arithmetic derivatives. What are $f(1)$ and $g(1)$? By the fact that $f$ and $g$ satisfy the Leibniz rule we know that $f(1)=g(1)=0$; the paper even shows the derivation of this fact. Let this sink in; any arithmetic derivative must send $1$ to $0$. Now let's try and do some (strong) induction:



            Assume that for all natural numbers $1leq kleq n$ we have shown that $f(k)=g(k)$. What can we say about $n+1$? If it is prime, then by our first property we see that $f(n+1)=g(n+1)=1$. If it is composite then we may write it as the product of two naturals $a$ and $b$, both of which are less than $n$. Well what is $f(ab)$? By the Leibniz rule and by our inductive hypothesis, we know the following: $$f(n+1)=f(ab)=f(a)b+af(b)=g(a)b+ag(b)=g(ab)=g(n+1)$$



            Thus it must by the case that $f$ and $g$ are the same function, and the arithmetic derivative is unique.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 2 '18 at 15:21

























            answered Dec 2 '18 at 15:11









            BlarglFlarg

            2234




            2234












            • That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
              – Flammable Maths
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19






            • 1




              @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
              – BlarglFlarg
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19


















            • That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
              – Flammable Maths
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19






            • 1




              @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
              – BlarglFlarg
              Dec 2 '18 at 15:19
















            That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
            – Flammable Maths
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19




            That was absolutely helpful and a great insight! Thank you very much :)
            – Flammable Maths
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19




            1




            1




            @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
            – BlarglFlarg
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19




            @FlammableMaths You are very welcome!
            – BlarglFlarg
            Dec 2 '18 at 15:19











            3














            The expression marked (1) is a bit contrived, but it is well-defined because the author implicitly assumes that $n_i>0$ for all $i$ in the expression $n=prod_{i=1}^kp_i^{n_i}$. This determines the $p_i$ and $n_i$ uniquely, because (positive) integers have unique factorizations. Rewriting expression (1) as
            $$n'=nsum_{i=1}^kfrac{n_i}{p_i}=sum_{i=1}n_ifrac{n}{p_i},$$
            shows that $n'$ is an integer, because the $p_i$ divide $n$ and the $n_i$ are integers by definition.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:49








            • 1




              For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:50


















            3














            The expression marked (1) is a bit contrived, but it is well-defined because the author implicitly assumes that $n_i>0$ for all $i$ in the expression $n=prod_{i=1}^kp_i^{n_i}$. This determines the $p_i$ and $n_i$ uniquely, because (positive) integers have unique factorizations. Rewriting expression (1) as
            $$n'=nsum_{i=1}^kfrac{n_i}{p_i}=sum_{i=1}n_ifrac{n}{p_i},$$
            shows that $n'$ is an integer, because the $p_i$ divide $n$ and the $n_i$ are integers by definition.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:49








            • 1




              For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:50
















            3












            3








            3






            The expression marked (1) is a bit contrived, but it is well-defined because the author implicitly assumes that $n_i>0$ for all $i$ in the expression $n=prod_{i=1}^kp_i^{n_i}$. This determines the $p_i$ and $n_i$ uniquely, because (positive) integers have unique factorizations. Rewriting expression (1) as
            $$n'=nsum_{i=1}^kfrac{n_i}{p_i}=sum_{i=1}n_ifrac{n}{p_i},$$
            shows that $n'$ is an integer, because the $p_i$ divide $n$ and the $n_i$ are integers by definition.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            The expression marked (1) is a bit contrived, but it is well-defined because the author implicitly assumes that $n_i>0$ for all $i$ in the expression $n=prod_{i=1}^kp_i^{n_i}$. This determines the $p_i$ and $n_i$ uniquely, because (positive) integers have unique factorizations. Rewriting expression (1) as
            $$n'=nsum_{i=1}^kfrac{n_i}{p_i}=sum_{i=1}n_ifrac{n}{p_i},$$
            shows that $n'$ is an integer, because the $p_i$ divide $n$ and the $n_i$ are integers by definition.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 2 '18 at 16:39









            David K

            52.6k340115




            52.6k340115










            answered Dec 2 '18 at 15:22









            Servaes

            22.4k33793




            22.4k33793












            • It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:49








            • 1




              For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:50




















            • It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:49








            • 1




              For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
              – David K
              Dec 2 '18 at 16:50


















            It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:49






            It is noteworthy that during the proof, the author mentions that the formula works even if $n_i = 0$ for some $i.$ But that is just for the convenience of being able to make an arbitrary factorization of $n$ into two factors, one of which may not be divisible by some prime factor of $n.$ For the purpose of showing that the formula gives a unique answer for any $n,$ we want to use the Leibniz rule to eliminate any factors whose exponents are zero, as is usual when writing a "unique" prime factorization.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:49






            1




            1




            For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:50






            For the person who keeps trying to change $n_i>0$ to $n_igeq 0,$ please comment why you think that change is required, and do not just keep resubmitting it until you find reviewers who let it through.
            – David K
            Dec 2 '18 at 16:50













            2














            Unique prime factorization and the Leibniz rule are enough. You can induct on the number of prime factors or on the total number of factors. As an example, suppose $n=p^3q^2r$ with $p,q,r$ prime. You can expand it to $n=pppqqr$ and use Leibniz to get $$n'=p'ppqqr+pp'pqqr+ppp'qqr+pppq'qr+pppqq'r+pppqqr'=3p^2q^2r+2p^3qr+p^3q^2$$

            The point is that any intermediate decomposition of $n$ can be further decomposed into the unique set of prime factors.



            If you look at the formula for the arithmetic derivative in the article, you can just use strong induction on $n$. Assume $n=pq$, with $p,q$ not assumed to be prime. If you know the derivatives of $p,q$ are given by the formula because they are smaller than $n$, you can show the formula holds for $n$.






            share|cite|improve this answer


























              2














              Unique prime factorization and the Leibniz rule are enough. You can induct on the number of prime factors or on the total number of factors. As an example, suppose $n=p^3q^2r$ with $p,q,r$ prime. You can expand it to $n=pppqqr$ and use Leibniz to get $$n'=p'ppqqr+pp'pqqr+ppp'qqr+pppq'qr+pppqq'r+pppqqr'=3p^2q^2r+2p^3qr+p^3q^2$$

              The point is that any intermediate decomposition of $n$ can be further decomposed into the unique set of prime factors.



              If you look at the formula for the arithmetic derivative in the article, you can just use strong induction on $n$. Assume $n=pq$, with $p,q$ not assumed to be prime. If you know the derivatives of $p,q$ are given by the formula because they are smaller than $n$, you can show the formula holds for $n$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                2












                2








                2






                Unique prime factorization and the Leibniz rule are enough. You can induct on the number of prime factors or on the total number of factors. As an example, suppose $n=p^3q^2r$ with $p,q,r$ prime. You can expand it to $n=pppqqr$ and use Leibniz to get $$n'=p'ppqqr+pp'pqqr+ppp'qqr+pppq'qr+pppqq'r+pppqqr'=3p^2q^2r+2p^3qr+p^3q^2$$

                The point is that any intermediate decomposition of $n$ can be further decomposed into the unique set of prime factors.



                If you look at the formula for the arithmetic derivative in the article, you can just use strong induction on $n$. Assume $n=pq$, with $p,q$ not assumed to be prime. If you know the derivatives of $p,q$ are given by the formula because they are smaller than $n$, you can show the formula holds for $n$.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Unique prime factorization and the Leibniz rule are enough. You can induct on the number of prime factors or on the total number of factors. As an example, suppose $n=p^3q^2r$ with $p,q,r$ prime. You can expand it to $n=pppqqr$ and use Leibniz to get $$n'=p'ppqqr+pp'pqqr+ppp'qqr+pppq'qr+pppqq'r+pppqqr'=3p^2q^2r+2p^3qr+p^3q^2$$

                The point is that any intermediate decomposition of $n$ can be further decomposed into the unique set of prime factors.



                If you look at the formula for the arithmetic derivative in the article, you can just use strong induction on $n$. Assume $n=pq$, with $p,q$ not assumed to be prime. If you know the derivatives of $p,q$ are given by the formula because they are smaller than $n$, you can show the formula holds for $n$.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 2 '18 at 15:44









                Ross Millikan

                291k23196371




                291k23196371























                    0














                    I did a Google search on "arithmetic derivative" and the first two hits were to wikipedia and OEIS.org/wiki. They clearly start by defining it for primes and then, just as for the calculus derivative, the derivative is defined for any product of factors by the Leibniz rule. The key fact is that every integer has an essentially unique factorization into prime factors coupled with the fact that multiplication is associative and commutative. If this were not the case, then there is no reason to expect that you can have a well-defined derivative. The existence and uniqueness of the derivative has to be proved, but unique factorization with associativity and commutativity implies both of these.



                    You might want to consider a variation of the arithmetic derivative where $, p'=1 ,$ for all primes $,p,$ and $, (ab)'=a'b+2ab', $ for all rational $,a,b.,$ What goes wrong here?



                    Perhaps a simple example will make things clearer. Consider a
                    magma or groupoid
                    which is a set $A$ with a binary operation $*$. The binary operation
                    is not assumed to be associative or commutative. Suppose that the
                    magma has a subset of generators $G$. That means that for every
                    element $x$ of $A$ there exists a finite number of generator elements
                    whose product equals $x$. Note that unless $A$ is freely generated by $G$,
                    then there can be more than one way to generate $x$. Now suppose we
                    want to define a morphism $f$ of $A$ to another magma $B$. We can
                    choose to define $f$ on all the generators $G$. Then we require the
                    morphism equation $,f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y),$ for all $x,y$ in $A$.
                    If $A$ is freely generated by $G$, then since each element $x$ in $A$
                    has a unique expression as a word on $G$, then $f(x)$ is uniquely
                    determined by extension using the morphism equation. This is proved
                    by induction on the length of the word which expresses $x$.
                    If $,A,$ is not freely generated by $G$, then it may be that the
                    morphism $,f,$ can not be well-defined.



                    Here is a minimal counterexample.
                    Let $,A = {a,b},,$ with binary operation $,x*y = x,$ for all $,x,y,$
                    in $,A.,$ Let $,B = {0,1},,$ with binary operation $,0cdot x=0,$
                    and $,1cdot x=x,$ for all $,x,$ in $,B.,$ No single element of $,A,$
                    is a generator so $,G = A,$ is a generating set of $,A,$ but not free
                    generators since $,a*b=b.,$. Now suppose that $,f(a)=0, f(b)=1.,$ Check
                    that $,f(a*b) = f(b) = 1,$ but $, f(a)cdot f(b) = 0cdot 1 = 0.,$ Now
                    $, f(a*b) = 1 ,$ but $, f(a)*f(b) = 0.,$ Therefore $f$ is not a morphism.






                    share|cite|improve this answer



















                    • 3




                      So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                      – Flammable Maths
                      Dec 2 '18 at 15:04
















                    0














                    I did a Google search on "arithmetic derivative" and the first two hits were to wikipedia and OEIS.org/wiki. They clearly start by defining it for primes and then, just as for the calculus derivative, the derivative is defined for any product of factors by the Leibniz rule. The key fact is that every integer has an essentially unique factorization into prime factors coupled with the fact that multiplication is associative and commutative. If this were not the case, then there is no reason to expect that you can have a well-defined derivative. The existence and uniqueness of the derivative has to be proved, but unique factorization with associativity and commutativity implies both of these.



                    You might want to consider a variation of the arithmetic derivative where $, p'=1 ,$ for all primes $,p,$ and $, (ab)'=a'b+2ab', $ for all rational $,a,b.,$ What goes wrong here?



                    Perhaps a simple example will make things clearer. Consider a
                    magma or groupoid
                    which is a set $A$ with a binary operation $*$. The binary operation
                    is not assumed to be associative or commutative. Suppose that the
                    magma has a subset of generators $G$. That means that for every
                    element $x$ of $A$ there exists a finite number of generator elements
                    whose product equals $x$. Note that unless $A$ is freely generated by $G$,
                    then there can be more than one way to generate $x$. Now suppose we
                    want to define a morphism $f$ of $A$ to another magma $B$. We can
                    choose to define $f$ on all the generators $G$. Then we require the
                    morphism equation $,f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y),$ for all $x,y$ in $A$.
                    If $A$ is freely generated by $G$, then since each element $x$ in $A$
                    has a unique expression as a word on $G$, then $f(x)$ is uniquely
                    determined by extension using the morphism equation. This is proved
                    by induction on the length of the word which expresses $x$.
                    If $,A,$ is not freely generated by $G$, then it may be that the
                    morphism $,f,$ can not be well-defined.



                    Here is a minimal counterexample.
                    Let $,A = {a,b},,$ with binary operation $,x*y = x,$ for all $,x,y,$
                    in $,A.,$ Let $,B = {0,1},,$ with binary operation $,0cdot x=0,$
                    and $,1cdot x=x,$ for all $,x,$ in $,B.,$ No single element of $,A,$
                    is a generator so $,G = A,$ is a generating set of $,A,$ but not free
                    generators since $,a*b=b.,$. Now suppose that $,f(a)=0, f(b)=1.,$ Check
                    that $,f(a*b) = f(b) = 1,$ but $, f(a)cdot f(b) = 0cdot 1 = 0.,$ Now
                    $, f(a*b) = 1 ,$ but $, f(a)*f(b) = 0.,$ Therefore $f$ is not a morphism.






                    share|cite|improve this answer



















                    • 3




                      So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                      – Flammable Maths
                      Dec 2 '18 at 15:04














                    0












                    0








                    0






                    I did a Google search on "arithmetic derivative" and the first two hits were to wikipedia and OEIS.org/wiki. They clearly start by defining it for primes and then, just as for the calculus derivative, the derivative is defined for any product of factors by the Leibniz rule. The key fact is that every integer has an essentially unique factorization into prime factors coupled with the fact that multiplication is associative and commutative. If this were not the case, then there is no reason to expect that you can have a well-defined derivative. The existence and uniqueness of the derivative has to be proved, but unique factorization with associativity and commutativity implies both of these.



                    You might want to consider a variation of the arithmetic derivative where $, p'=1 ,$ for all primes $,p,$ and $, (ab)'=a'b+2ab', $ for all rational $,a,b.,$ What goes wrong here?



                    Perhaps a simple example will make things clearer. Consider a
                    magma or groupoid
                    which is a set $A$ with a binary operation $*$. The binary operation
                    is not assumed to be associative or commutative. Suppose that the
                    magma has a subset of generators $G$. That means that for every
                    element $x$ of $A$ there exists a finite number of generator elements
                    whose product equals $x$. Note that unless $A$ is freely generated by $G$,
                    then there can be more than one way to generate $x$. Now suppose we
                    want to define a morphism $f$ of $A$ to another magma $B$. We can
                    choose to define $f$ on all the generators $G$. Then we require the
                    morphism equation $,f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y),$ for all $x,y$ in $A$.
                    If $A$ is freely generated by $G$, then since each element $x$ in $A$
                    has a unique expression as a word on $G$, then $f(x)$ is uniquely
                    determined by extension using the morphism equation. This is proved
                    by induction on the length of the word which expresses $x$.
                    If $,A,$ is not freely generated by $G$, then it may be that the
                    morphism $,f,$ can not be well-defined.



                    Here is a minimal counterexample.
                    Let $,A = {a,b},,$ with binary operation $,x*y = x,$ for all $,x,y,$
                    in $,A.,$ Let $,B = {0,1},,$ with binary operation $,0cdot x=0,$
                    and $,1cdot x=x,$ for all $,x,$ in $,B.,$ No single element of $,A,$
                    is a generator so $,G = A,$ is a generating set of $,A,$ but not free
                    generators since $,a*b=b.,$. Now suppose that $,f(a)=0, f(b)=1.,$ Check
                    that $,f(a*b) = f(b) = 1,$ but $, f(a)cdot f(b) = 0cdot 1 = 0.,$ Now
                    $, f(a*b) = 1 ,$ but $, f(a)*f(b) = 0.,$ Therefore $f$ is not a morphism.






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    I did a Google search on "arithmetic derivative" and the first two hits were to wikipedia and OEIS.org/wiki. They clearly start by defining it for primes and then, just as for the calculus derivative, the derivative is defined for any product of factors by the Leibniz rule. The key fact is that every integer has an essentially unique factorization into prime factors coupled with the fact that multiplication is associative and commutative. If this were not the case, then there is no reason to expect that you can have a well-defined derivative. The existence and uniqueness of the derivative has to be proved, but unique factorization with associativity and commutativity implies both of these.



                    You might want to consider a variation of the arithmetic derivative where $, p'=1 ,$ for all primes $,p,$ and $, (ab)'=a'b+2ab', $ for all rational $,a,b.,$ What goes wrong here?



                    Perhaps a simple example will make things clearer. Consider a
                    magma or groupoid
                    which is a set $A$ with a binary operation $*$. The binary operation
                    is not assumed to be associative or commutative. Suppose that the
                    magma has a subset of generators $G$. That means that for every
                    element $x$ of $A$ there exists a finite number of generator elements
                    whose product equals $x$. Note that unless $A$ is freely generated by $G$,
                    then there can be more than one way to generate $x$. Now suppose we
                    want to define a morphism $f$ of $A$ to another magma $B$. We can
                    choose to define $f$ on all the generators $G$. Then we require the
                    morphism equation $,f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y),$ for all $x,y$ in $A$.
                    If $A$ is freely generated by $G$, then since each element $x$ in $A$
                    has a unique expression as a word on $G$, then $f(x)$ is uniquely
                    determined by extension using the morphism equation. This is proved
                    by induction on the length of the word which expresses $x$.
                    If $,A,$ is not freely generated by $G$, then it may be that the
                    morphism $,f,$ can not be well-defined.



                    Here is a minimal counterexample.
                    Let $,A = {a,b},,$ with binary operation $,x*y = x,$ for all $,x,y,$
                    in $,A.,$ Let $,B = {0,1},,$ with binary operation $,0cdot x=0,$
                    and $,1cdot x=x,$ for all $,x,$ in $,B.,$ No single element of $,A,$
                    is a generator so $,G = A,$ is a generating set of $,A,$ but not free
                    generators since $,a*b=b.,$. Now suppose that $,f(a)=0, f(b)=1.,$ Check
                    that $,f(a*b) = f(b) = 1,$ but $, f(a)cdot f(b) = 0cdot 1 = 0.,$ Now
                    $, f(a*b) = 1 ,$ but $, f(a)*f(b) = 0.,$ Therefore $f$ is not a morphism.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Dec 3 '18 at 0:00

























                    answered Dec 2 '18 at 15:01









                    Somos

                    12.9k11034




                    12.9k11034








                    • 3




                      So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                      – Flammable Maths
                      Dec 2 '18 at 15:04














                    • 3




                      So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                      – Flammable Maths
                      Dec 2 '18 at 15:04








                    3




                    3




                    So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                    – Flammable Maths
                    Dec 2 '18 at 15:04




                    So this unique prime factorization is already enough to prove the well-defined property?
                    – Flammable Maths
                    Dec 2 '18 at 15:04


















                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                    Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                    Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3022717%2fhelp-in-understanding-why-the-arithmetic-derivative-is-well-defined%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    AnyDesk - Fatal Program Failure

                    How to calibrate 16:9 built-in touch-screen to a 4:3 resolution?

                    QoS: MAC-Priority for clients behind a repeater