chain rule of a second derivative











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Suppose I have the following function where
$$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
$$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
$$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
where,
$$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$



My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?










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    Suppose I have the following function where
    $$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
    $$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
    By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
    $$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
    where,
    $$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$



    My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
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      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
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      down vote

      favorite











      Suppose I have the following function where
      $$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
      $$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
      By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
      $$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
      where,
      $$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$



      My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?










      share|cite|improve this question













      Suppose I have the following function where
      $$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
      $$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
      By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
      $$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
      where,
      $$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$



      My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?







      derivatives chain-rule






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      asked Nov 15 at 17:43









      BeeTiau

      568




      568






















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          You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:



          $$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$



          Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:00










          • I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:08










          • Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
            – user3482749
            Nov 15 at 18:09











          Your Answer





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          1 Answer
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          1 Answer
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          active

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          up vote
          0
          down vote



          accepted










          You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:



          $$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$



          Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:00










          • I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:08










          • Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
            – user3482749
            Nov 15 at 18:09















          up vote
          0
          down vote



          accepted










          You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:



          $$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$



          Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:00










          • I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:08










          • Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
            – user3482749
            Nov 15 at 18:09













          up vote
          0
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          0
          down vote



          accepted






          You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:



          $$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$



          Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:



          $$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$



          Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 15 at 17:55









          user3482749

          1,088411




          1,088411












          • Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:00










          • I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:08










          • Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
            – user3482749
            Nov 15 at 18:09


















          • Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:00










          • I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
            – BeeTiau
            Nov 15 at 18:08










          • Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
            – user3482749
            Nov 15 at 18:09
















          Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
          – BeeTiau
          Nov 15 at 18:00




          Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
          – BeeTiau
          Nov 15 at 18:00












          I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
          – BeeTiau
          Nov 15 at 18:08




          I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
          – BeeTiau
          Nov 15 at 18:08












          Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
          – user3482749
          Nov 15 at 18:09




          Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
          – user3482749
          Nov 15 at 18:09


















           

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