chain rule of a second derivative
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Suppose I have the following function where
$$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
$$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
$$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
where,
$$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$
My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?
derivatives chain-rule
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up vote
0
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Suppose I have the following function where
$$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
$$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
$$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
where,
$$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$
My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?
derivatives chain-rule
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Suppose I have the following function where
$$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
$$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
$$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
where,
$$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$
My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?
derivatives chain-rule
Suppose I have the following function where
$$z=omega(zeta)=frac{1}{zeta}$$ and also,
$$phi(zeta) = zeta^{-1}+2zeta$$
By using chain rule, I can get the first-derivative of $phi(z)$. Notice that I want now $phi$ as a function of $z$. Thus,
$$phi'(z)=frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{dzeta}{dz}=frac{phi'(zeta)}{omega'(zeta)}$$
where,
$$omega'(zeta) = frac{domega(zeta)}{dzeta}=frac{dz}{dzeta}$$
My question is, how can we get the second-derivative of $phi(z)$, i.e. $phi''(z)$? By using chain rule?
derivatives chain-rule
derivatives chain-rule
asked Nov 15 at 17:43
BeeTiau
568
568
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1 Answer
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You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:
$$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$
Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:
$$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$
Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:
$$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$
Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:
$$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$
Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.
You already have $phi'(z)$, so just differentiate it using the product and chain rules:
$$phi''(z) = frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right)frac{dzeta}{dz} + frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2+frac{dphi}{dzeta}frac{d^2zeta}{dz^2}.$$
Notice that nothing we've done uses the form of your functions, so this holds in full generality. In your special case, you could also just substitute everything into get $phi$ in terms of $z$ directly, then differentiate that twice.
answered Nov 15 at 17:55
user3482749
1,088411
1,088411
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
add a comment |
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
Thanks @user3482749! I am actually trying to avoid direct substitution but rather go with this implicitly through chain rule.
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:00
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
I still don't understand how to get the first part in the last expression, i.e. $frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}left(frac{dzeta}{dz}right)^2$
– BeeTiau
Nov 15 at 18:08
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
Sure: $frac{d}{dz}left(frac{dphi}{dzeta}right) = frac{d^2phi}{dzeta^2}frac{dzeta}{dz}$ by the chain rule (applied to the function $frac{dphi}{dzeta}$), then it's multiplied by $frac{dzeta}{dz}$, so I've grouped the two copies of $frac{dzeta}{dz}$ together.
– user3482749
Nov 15 at 18:09
add a comment |
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