Does MTG have a card with a mana-generating ability that has a target and is thus not a mana ability?











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Just out of curiosity: The rules say:




605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)




So, are there currently abilities on cards that do have a target, but could add mana on resolve and are no loyalty abilities, thus using the stack?



I'm asking because until recently I falsely believed that all abilities that generate mana are mana abilities and are thus exceptions to the "abilities go to the stack" rule. But it wouldn't be MTG if rules didn't have exceptions to exceptions, so it'd be good to know which cards to look out for. Even if some of them are joke cards like Unglued it'd be nice to know them just for the sake of knowing.










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  • 1




    The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
    – Zags
    2 days ago










  • In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
    – Ivo Beckers
    yesterday










  • While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
    – Alex
    yesterday






  • 1




    605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
    – Manuel Hoffmann
    yesterday










  • Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
    – Alex
    yesterday















up vote
17
down vote

favorite
1












Just out of curiosity: The rules say:




605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)




So, are there currently abilities on cards that do have a target, but could add mana on resolve and are no loyalty abilities, thus using the stack?



I'm asking because until recently I falsely believed that all abilities that generate mana are mana abilities and are thus exceptions to the "abilities go to the stack" rule. But it wouldn't be MTG if rules didn't have exceptions to exceptions, so it'd be good to know which cards to look out for. Even if some of them are joke cards like Unglued it'd be nice to know them just for the sake of knowing.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Alex is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 1




    The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
    – Zags
    2 days ago










  • In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
    – Ivo Beckers
    yesterday










  • While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
    – Alex
    yesterday






  • 1




    605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
    – Manuel Hoffmann
    yesterday










  • Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
    – Alex
    yesterday













up vote
17
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
17
down vote

favorite
1






1





Just out of curiosity: The rules say:




605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)




So, are there currently abilities on cards that do have a target, but could add mana on resolve and are no loyalty abilities, thus using the stack?



I'm asking because until recently I falsely believed that all abilities that generate mana are mana abilities and are thus exceptions to the "abilities go to the stack" rule. But it wouldn't be MTG if rules didn't have exceptions to exceptions, so it'd be good to know which cards to look out for. Even if some of them are joke cards like Unglued it'd be nice to know them just for the sake of knowing.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Alex is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Just out of curiosity: The rules say:




605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)




So, are there currently abilities on cards that do have a target, but could add mana on resolve and are no loyalty abilities, thus using the stack?



I'm asking because until recently I falsely believed that all abilities that generate mana are mana abilities and are thus exceptions to the "abilities go to the stack" rule. But it wouldn't be MTG if rules didn't have exceptions to exceptions, so it'd be good to know which cards to look out for. Even if some of them are joke cards like Unglued it'd be nice to know them just for the sake of knowing.







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  • 1




    The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
    – Zags
    2 days ago










  • In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
    – Ivo Beckers
    yesterday










  • While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
    – Alex
    yesterday






  • 1




    605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
    – Manuel Hoffmann
    yesterday










  • Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
    – Alex
    yesterday














  • 1




    The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
    – Zags
    2 days ago










  • In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
    – Ivo Beckers
    yesterday










  • While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
    – Alex
    yesterday






  • 1




    605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
    – Manuel Hoffmann
    yesterday










  • Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
    – Alex
    yesterday








1




1




The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
– Zags
2 days ago




The answers provide examples of things that are not mana abilities. One thing to note is that, as long as it doesn't target, it is a mana ability no matter how complicated. See Selvala, Explorer Returned for an example of something truly absurd that is still a mana ability and does not use the stack.
– Zags
2 days ago












In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
– Ivo Beckers
yesterday




In case you are wondering about triggered abilities instead of activated abilities: Vernal Bloom is an example of a triggered mana ability while Eladamri’s Vineyard generates mana while not being a mana ability. see rule 605.1b
– Ivo Beckers
yesterday












While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
– Alex
yesterday




While I am also interested in triggered abilities, I don't see why Eladamri’s Vineyard is no mana ability, because "each player" means that it's not targeted either.
– Alex
yesterday




1




1




605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
– Manuel Hoffmann
yesterday




605.1b specifies that a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it either comes from the resolution of an activated mana ability or from mana being added to a mana pool. That's why Eladamri's Vineyard is not a mana ability. As far why they chose it to be this way, I don't know.
– Manuel Hoffmann
yesterday












Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
– Alex
yesterday




Oh. My god! O_O That is very good to know, because I like to play Mana Echoes, whose ability, as it turns out, is not a mana ability, either, then.
– Alex
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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up vote
27
down vote



accepted










Yes, Deathrite Shaman is one such card. One of its abilities:




{T}: Exile target land card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color.




In fact, its oracle page even addresses this ability:




Because the first ability requires a target, it is not a mana ability. It uses the stack and can be responded to. (2016-06-08)







share|improve this answer





















  • Thank you for the help! :-)
    – Alex
    2 days ago


















up vote
21
down vote













In addition to Ikegami's answer, I found two additional cards with abilities that add mana but are not considered mana abilities.



Soulbright Flamekin has the ability




{2}: Target creature gains trample until end of turn. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, you may add RRRRRRRR.




Witch Engine has the ability




{T}: Add BBBB. Target opponent gains control of Witch Engine. (Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.)




Note that in both cases the abilities contain the keyword "Target". This makes the ability not a mana ability. Consider the counter case of Cabal Pit.




{T}: Add B. Cabal Pit deals 1 damage to you.




This is a mana ability because it never uses the word target.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 1




    Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
    – Aaron
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago










  • @ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
    – Rad80
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday






  • 1




    @DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
    – Alex
    yesterday











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
27
down vote



accepted










Yes, Deathrite Shaman is one such card. One of its abilities:




{T}: Exile target land card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color.




In fact, its oracle page even addresses this ability:




Because the first ability requires a target, it is not a mana ability. It uses the stack and can be responded to. (2016-06-08)







share|improve this answer





















  • Thank you for the help! :-)
    – Alex
    2 days ago















up vote
27
down vote



accepted










Yes, Deathrite Shaman is one such card. One of its abilities:




{T}: Exile target land card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color.




In fact, its oracle page even addresses this ability:




Because the first ability requires a target, it is not a mana ability. It uses the stack and can be responded to. (2016-06-08)







share|improve this answer





















  • Thank you for the help! :-)
    – Alex
    2 days ago













up vote
27
down vote



accepted







up vote
27
down vote



accepted






Yes, Deathrite Shaman is one such card. One of its abilities:




{T}: Exile target land card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color.




In fact, its oracle page even addresses this ability:




Because the first ability requires a target, it is not a mana ability. It uses the stack and can be responded to. (2016-06-08)







share|improve this answer












Yes, Deathrite Shaman is one such card. One of its abilities:




{T}: Exile target land card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color.




In fact, its oracle page even addresses this ability:




Because the first ability requires a target, it is not a mana ability. It uses the stack and can be responded to. (2016-06-08)








share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









ryanyuyu

1,404619




1,404619












  • Thank you for the help! :-)
    – Alex
    2 days ago


















  • Thank you for the help! :-)
    – Alex
    2 days ago
















Thank you for the help! :-)
– Alex
2 days ago




Thank you for the help! :-)
– Alex
2 days ago










up vote
21
down vote













In addition to Ikegami's answer, I found two additional cards with abilities that add mana but are not considered mana abilities.



Soulbright Flamekin has the ability




{2}: Target creature gains trample until end of turn. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, you may add RRRRRRRR.




Witch Engine has the ability




{T}: Add BBBB. Target opponent gains control of Witch Engine. (Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.)




Note that in both cases the abilities contain the keyword "Target". This makes the ability not a mana ability. Consider the counter case of Cabal Pit.




{T}: Add B. Cabal Pit deals 1 damage to you.




This is a mana ability because it never uses the word target.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 1




    Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
    – Aaron
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago










  • @ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
    – Rad80
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday






  • 1




    @DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
    – Alex
    yesterday















up vote
21
down vote













In addition to Ikegami's answer, I found two additional cards with abilities that add mana but are not considered mana abilities.



Soulbright Flamekin has the ability




{2}: Target creature gains trample until end of turn. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, you may add RRRRRRRR.




Witch Engine has the ability




{T}: Add BBBB. Target opponent gains control of Witch Engine. (Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.)




Note that in both cases the abilities contain the keyword "Target". This makes the ability not a mana ability. Consider the counter case of Cabal Pit.




{T}: Add B. Cabal Pit deals 1 damage to you.




This is a mana ability because it never uses the word target.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 1




    Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
    – Aaron
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago










  • @ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
    – Rad80
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday






  • 1




    @DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
    – Alex
    yesterday













up vote
21
down vote










up vote
21
down vote









In addition to Ikegami's answer, I found two additional cards with abilities that add mana but are not considered mana abilities.



Soulbright Flamekin has the ability




{2}: Target creature gains trample until end of turn. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, you may add RRRRRRRR.




Witch Engine has the ability




{T}: Add BBBB. Target opponent gains control of Witch Engine. (Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.)




Note that in both cases the abilities contain the keyword "Target". This makes the ability not a mana ability. Consider the counter case of Cabal Pit.




{T}: Add B. Cabal Pit deals 1 damage to you.




This is a mana ability because it never uses the word target.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









In addition to Ikegami's answer, I found two additional cards with abilities that add mana but are not considered mana abilities.



Soulbright Flamekin has the ability




{2}: Target creature gains trample until end of turn. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, you may add RRRRRRRR.




Witch Engine has the ability




{T}: Add BBBB. Target opponent gains control of Witch Engine. (Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.)




Note that in both cases the abilities contain the keyword "Target". This makes the ability not a mana ability. Consider the counter case of Cabal Pit.




{T}: Add B. Cabal Pit deals 1 damage to you.




This is a mana ability because it never uses the word target.







share|improve this answer








New contributor




DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






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answered 2 days ago









DenisS

37517




37517




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New contributor





DenisS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 1




    Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
    – Aaron
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago










  • @ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
    – Rad80
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday






  • 1




    @DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
    – Alex
    yesterday














  • 1




    Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
    – Aaron
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago










  • @ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
    – Rad80
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday






  • 1




    @DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
    – Alex
    yesterday








1




1




Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
– Aaron
2 days ago






Are you sure it has to specifically use the word target to count? For example, if it said "deal 1 damage to a creature that you choose"? That wording would not be used at this point in time, but the point remains, since there may be other cards that similarly don't exactly use the word target, especially if they are older.
– Aaron
2 days ago






1




1




@Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
– Arcanist Lupus
2 days ago




@Aaron yes. See rule 605.1a quoted above.
– Arcanist Lupus
2 days ago












@ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
– Rad80
yesterday




@ArcanistLupus do you mean that the activating player is not a target for cabal pit? It seems odd and I do not see how rule 605.1a is relevant.
– Rad80
yesterday




4




4




@Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
– Peter Taylor
yesterday




@Rad80, the activating player of Cabal Pit is indeed not a target. (How could they be? The activating player is fixed by the action of activating the ability, so there's no possibility of choice in any scenario). See rule 114.
– Peter Taylor
yesterday




1




1




@DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
– Alex
yesterday




@DenisS Thank you for the additional examples! :-)
– Alex
yesterday










Alex is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










 

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Alex is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













Alex is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












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