If $x_n to 0$ and $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is a bijection, then show that $x_{sigma (n)} to 0$
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Here's the question:
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence. Assume that $x_n to 0$. Let $sigma :
mathbb{N} to mathbb{N} $ be a bijection. Define a new sequence $y_n:= x_{sigma(n)}$. Show that $y_n to 0$.
Here's my attempted proof:
Let $epsilon >0$ be arbitrary. Then there exists $Ninmathbb{N}$ such that for $nge N$, we have $left| x_n right|<epsilon$. Now, define the set $A:={nin mathbb{N} : sigma(n) < N }$. Clearly, $A$ is finite set (since $sigma$ is a bijection and there are precisely $N-1$ elements in the set). Let $M=max A +1$. It is evident by the definition of $(y_n)$ that for $nge sigma(M)$, we have $|y_n|< epsilon$.
Is this proof correct? What are some alternative proofs?
real-analysis sequences-and-series proof-verification alternative-proof
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Here's the question:
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence. Assume that $x_n to 0$. Let $sigma :
mathbb{N} to mathbb{N} $ be a bijection. Define a new sequence $y_n:= x_{sigma(n)}$. Show that $y_n to 0$.
Here's my attempted proof:
Let $epsilon >0$ be arbitrary. Then there exists $Ninmathbb{N}$ such that for $nge N$, we have $left| x_n right|<epsilon$. Now, define the set $A:={nin mathbb{N} : sigma(n) < N }$. Clearly, $A$ is finite set (since $sigma$ is a bijection and there are precisely $N-1$ elements in the set). Let $M=max A +1$. It is evident by the definition of $(y_n)$ that for $nge sigma(M)$, we have $|y_n|< epsilon$.
Is this proof correct? What are some alternative proofs?
real-analysis sequences-and-series proof-verification alternative-proof
1
Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Here's the question:
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence. Assume that $x_n to 0$. Let $sigma :
mathbb{N} to mathbb{N} $ be a bijection. Define a new sequence $y_n:= x_{sigma(n)}$. Show that $y_n to 0$.
Here's my attempted proof:
Let $epsilon >0$ be arbitrary. Then there exists $Ninmathbb{N}$ such that for $nge N$, we have $left| x_n right|<epsilon$. Now, define the set $A:={nin mathbb{N} : sigma(n) < N }$. Clearly, $A$ is finite set (since $sigma$ is a bijection and there are precisely $N-1$ elements in the set). Let $M=max A +1$. It is evident by the definition of $(y_n)$ that for $nge sigma(M)$, we have $|y_n|< epsilon$.
Is this proof correct? What are some alternative proofs?
real-analysis sequences-and-series proof-verification alternative-proof
Here's the question:
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence. Assume that $x_n to 0$. Let $sigma :
mathbb{N} to mathbb{N} $ be a bijection. Define a new sequence $y_n:= x_{sigma(n)}$. Show that $y_n to 0$.
Here's my attempted proof:
Let $epsilon >0$ be arbitrary. Then there exists $Ninmathbb{N}$ such that for $nge N$, we have $left| x_n right|<epsilon$. Now, define the set $A:={nin mathbb{N} : sigma(n) < N }$. Clearly, $A$ is finite set (since $sigma$ is a bijection and there are precisely $N-1$ elements in the set). Let $M=max A +1$. It is evident by the definition of $(y_n)$ that for $nge sigma(M)$, we have $|y_n|< epsilon$.
Is this proof correct? What are some alternative proofs?
real-analysis sequences-and-series proof-verification alternative-proof
real-analysis sequences-and-series proof-verification alternative-proof
edited Nov 17 at 5:51
Brahadeesh
5,78441957
5,78441957
asked May 25 at 15:49
Ashish K
775513
775513
1
Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11
add a comment |
1
Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11
1
1
Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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up vote
1
down vote
Something slightly strange has happened. I think where you say $n geq sigma(M)$ you just want $n geq M$. Let's see it your way first:
Your argument
You say $M = max A + 1$.
Then you take $n geq sigma(M)$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and you want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. you want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. But why is this true?
Proposed correction
Say $M = max A + 1$.
Then take $n geq M$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and we want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. we want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. Clearly $n notin A$ becasue $n geq M = max A + 1$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Nitpicking. If $N=1$ then $A=emptyset$ and $max A$ does not exist.
You can fix this by saying "Then there exists $Nin Bbb N$ such that $N>1$ and such that $forall ngeq N,(|x_n|<epsilon).$"
Or you can fix this by saying "Let $Min Bbb N$ such that $forall nin A,(M>n).$" (which is logical whether or not $A$ is empty, because $A$ is finite).
And in the last line you want $n>M, $ because $n>Mimplies sigma(n)geq Nimplies |x_{sigma(n)}|<epsilon$, as explained in the Answer from T_M.
Other than that, it's fine.
BTW. If we weaken the condition on $sigma$ to having finite fibers, that is, if ${m:f(m)=n}$ is finite for each $n$, and without $sigma$ necessarily being surjective, then we still have $x_{sigma(n)}to 0 $ because $A$ is still finite. (Although $A$ may have more than $N-1$ members.)
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Something slightly strange has happened. I think where you say $n geq sigma(M)$ you just want $n geq M$. Let's see it your way first:
Your argument
You say $M = max A + 1$.
Then you take $n geq sigma(M)$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and you want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. you want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. But why is this true?
Proposed correction
Say $M = max A + 1$.
Then take $n geq M$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and we want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. we want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. Clearly $n notin A$ becasue $n geq M = max A + 1$.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Something slightly strange has happened. I think where you say $n geq sigma(M)$ you just want $n geq M$. Let's see it your way first:
Your argument
You say $M = max A + 1$.
Then you take $n geq sigma(M)$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and you want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. you want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. But why is this true?
Proposed correction
Say $M = max A + 1$.
Then take $n geq M$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and we want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. we want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. Clearly $n notin A$ becasue $n geq M = max A + 1$.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Something slightly strange has happened. I think where you say $n geq sigma(M)$ you just want $n geq M$. Let's see it your way first:
Your argument
You say $M = max A + 1$.
Then you take $n geq sigma(M)$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and you want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. you want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. But why is this true?
Proposed correction
Say $M = max A + 1$.
Then take $n geq M$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and we want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. we want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. Clearly $n notin A$ becasue $n geq M = max A + 1$.
Something slightly strange has happened. I think where you say $n geq sigma(M)$ you just want $n geq M$. Let's see it your way first:
Your argument
You say $M = max A + 1$.
Then you take $n geq sigma(M)$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and you want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. you want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. But why is this true?
Proposed correction
Say $M = max A + 1$.
Then take $n geq M$.
Now $y_n = x_{sigma(n)}$ and we want $|y_n| < epsilon$, i.e. we want $|x_{sigma(n)}| < epsilon$.
This would be true if $sigma(n) geq N$, which is equivalent to saying $n notin A$. Clearly $n notin A$ becasue $n geq M = max A + 1$.
answered May 25 at 18:46
T_M
97927
97927
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Nitpicking. If $N=1$ then $A=emptyset$ and $max A$ does not exist.
You can fix this by saying "Then there exists $Nin Bbb N$ such that $N>1$ and such that $forall ngeq N,(|x_n|<epsilon).$"
Or you can fix this by saying "Let $Min Bbb N$ such that $forall nin A,(M>n).$" (which is logical whether or not $A$ is empty, because $A$ is finite).
And in the last line you want $n>M, $ because $n>Mimplies sigma(n)geq Nimplies |x_{sigma(n)}|<epsilon$, as explained in the Answer from T_M.
Other than that, it's fine.
BTW. If we weaken the condition on $sigma$ to having finite fibers, that is, if ${m:f(m)=n}$ is finite for each $n$, and without $sigma$ necessarily being surjective, then we still have $x_{sigma(n)}to 0 $ because $A$ is still finite. (Although $A$ may have more than $N-1$ members.)
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Nitpicking. If $N=1$ then $A=emptyset$ and $max A$ does not exist.
You can fix this by saying "Then there exists $Nin Bbb N$ such that $N>1$ and such that $forall ngeq N,(|x_n|<epsilon).$"
Or you can fix this by saying "Let $Min Bbb N$ such that $forall nin A,(M>n).$" (which is logical whether or not $A$ is empty, because $A$ is finite).
And in the last line you want $n>M, $ because $n>Mimplies sigma(n)geq Nimplies |x_{sigma(n)}|<epsilon$, as explained in the Answer from T_M.
Other than that, it's fine.
BTW. If we weaken the condition on $sigma$ to having finite fibers, that is, if ${m:f(m)=n}$ is finite for each $n$, and without $sigma$ necessarily being surjective, then we still have $x_{sigma(n)}to 0 $ because $A$ is still finite. (Although $A$ may have more than $N-1$ members.)
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Nitpicking. If $N=1$ then $A=emptyset$ and $max A$ does not exist.
You can fix this by saying "Then there exists $Nin Bbb N$ such that $N>1$ and such that $forall ngeq N,(|x_n|<epsilon).$"
Or you can fix this by saying "Let $Min Bbb N$ such that $forall nin A,(M>n).$" (which is logical whether or not $A$ is empty, because $A$ is finite).
And in the last line you want $n>M, $ because $n>Mimplies sigma(n)geq Nimplies |x_{sigma(n)}|<epsilon$, as explained in the Answer from T_M.
Other than that, it's fine.
BTW. If we weaken the condition on $sigma$ to having finite fibers, that is, if ${m:f(m)=n}$ is finite for each $n$, and without $sigma$ necessarily being surjective, then we still have $x_{sigma(n)}to 0 $ because $A$ is still finite. (Although $A$ may have more than $N-1$ members.)
Nitpicking. If $N=1$ then $A=emptyset$ and $max A$ does not exist.
You can fix this by saying "Then there exists $Nin Bbb N$ such that $N>1$ and such that $forall ngeq N,(|x_n|<epsilon).$"
Or you can fix this by saying "Let $Min Bbb N$ such that $forall nin A,(M>n).$" (which is logical whether or not $A$ is empty, because $A$ is finite).
And in the last line you want $n>M, $ because $n>Mimplies sigma(n)geq Nimplies |x_{sigma(n)}|<epsilon$, as explained in the Answer from T_M.
Other than that, it's fine.
BTW. If we weaken the condition on $sigma$ to having finite fibers, that is, if ${m:f(m)=n}$ is finite for each $n$, and without $sigma$ necessarily being surjective, then we still have $x_{sigma(n)}to 0 $ because $A$ is still finite. (Although $A$ may have more than $N-1$ members.)
edited Nov 17 at 7:51
answered Nov 17 at 7:41
DanielWainfleet
33.5k31647
33.5k31647
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Your proof is correct and rather straightforward.
– Math1000
May 25 at 15:56
You could "factor" the proof into a proof that $sigma(n) to infty$ as $nto infty$, and then a proof that if $sigma : mathbb{N} to mathbb{N}$ is any function satisfying this condition, then $x_{sigma(n)} to 0$ as $n to infty$. (Each part of the proof would take certain elements of this proof almost verbatim...)
– Daniel Schepler
May 25 at 19:11